"Barr gives false recounting of Texas voter fraud case"

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by archives, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    "Barr gives false recounting of Texas voter fraud case in effort to cast doubt on mail-in voting"

    "Attorney General William Barr gave a false recounting of a voter fraud case in Texas during an interview Wednesday as he sought to bolster his unfounded argument that mass expansions of mail-in voting in 2020 will increase the risk of widespread fraud."

    "Barr incorrectly said in an interview with CNN's Wolf Blitzer that elections that have been held with mail have found substantial fraud and coercion, before launching into the false account. "For example, we indicted someone in Texas, 1,700 ballots collected, he -- from people who could vote, he made them out and voted for the person he wanted to. Barr added, That kind of thing happens with mail-in ballots and everyone knows that."

    "But Barr's description was not even close to what happened in the case, which was never under the Justice Department's purview in the first place -- according to Andy Chatham, a former assistant district attorney who worked on the investigation in 2017.

    "I was like, 'What? Why would he talk about that case?'" Chatham told ABC News Friday when asked about his reaction to hearing Barr invoke the investigation. "This wasn't a case of voter fraud. This was a case of what we think was a political consultant trying to scam candidates."

    "The other thing that Barr got very wrong about the case is that we knew about this thing before it even happened, and prevented any potentially fraudulent ballots from being cast."

    "Barr's false description of the case comes as officials in the intelligence community are warning Russia is seeking to "amplify" concerns over the integrity of U.S. elections by promoting allegations that mail-in voting will result in rampant fraud."


    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/barr...ry?id=72816537

    It is as if this is all scripted out, since Trump took a nosedive with his virus reaction, he has been out there pedaling crooked elections, now we got Barr, who was discovered last week already prepping his office for election challenges, doing the same, and, at the same time, the Russians have been caught involved in the same activity

    The design is obvious, if Trump is losing election night, it was rigged. If he is leading election night, and he will declare victory before there are any real indications he won, and later starts losing when the mail in voting is counted, it was rigged. Either way, the goal is to litigate the hell out of the election results, take his chances on beer ball in the SCOTUS

    Is this the version of democracy that the Founding Fathers had in mind 1787?
     
  2. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    Barr's points were still logically valid and sound. He got a bad example from his staff. We can find plenty of other examples that he could have used.

    Barr actually laid waste to old Wolfie in that segment, too.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  3. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    The "bad example from his staff" is rather comical, Barr knew it wasn't true, probably didn't care that it wasn't true, he was only there to plant the innuendo

    Those "plenty of other examples" turn out to be either anecdotal narratives, or, cherry picked incidents occurring over sometimes decades from the thousands of elections held every year in America, in no way or manner do they offset not only the umpteen studies showing it isn't a problem plus the mere fact five States including ruby red Utah have been doing it successfully for years now

    And the irony is that Trump has told voters in Florida and North Carolina to vote by mail
     
  4. ellesdee

    ellesdee Well-Known Member

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    Fraud is a risk for any kind of voting. No one can show that mail-in voting is any riskier than any other.

    Fraud isn’t the real issue. The real issue is being able to get a mail-in voting system up and running in every state. Having to scramble to get it all together in time will certainly lead to some problems, which will all be highlighted and exaggerated during the aftermath, by both sides.
     
  5. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    That is true, however, it has only been one side who has been at for months now aiming to discredit the election even before it happens. Plus, for the past year and half McConnell had several pleas coming to him to approval funding to secure the election, all of which fell on deaf ears

    As I noted, it seems as if it was all scripted ahead of time
     
  6. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    You'll need to prove that.

    Since there are other examples he could have used, it isn't innuendo. It's just fact. Mail voter fraud happens.

    And that's the logical fallacy that Wolfie tried to use. We don't see "widespread" mail-in voter fraud because the system is not used in a "widespread manner", lol. That argument simply doesn't hold any water.

    The other VERY important FACT is that you don't even need "widespread" voter fraud to change the outcome of a very close election. When you have an election and three states can change the outcome, you only need to cheat in a few districts in those few states to change the entire outcome of a national election. The math certainly isn't hard to do. This point gets brushed under the rug by folks that are pushing the cheat-by-mail voting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  7. apexofpurple

    apexofpurple Well-Known Member

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    Tell the whole truth. These so called election security bills submitted by the Dem controlled House are kitchen sink packages containing such off the wall addons as healthcare for illegals, caps on emissions and drilling, funding for irrelevant Dem pet projects, basically anything they can include to ensure it gets voted down because that's the goal. Name a bill something like 'The American Voting Security Act' and then huff 'n puff and accuse your opponents of not supporting it when you damned well designed it to fail with these riders that you never mention when you're out there whipping up the dupes.
     
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  8. ellesdee

    ellesdee Well-Known Member

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    I agree a lot of the problem stems from certain people dragging their feet concerning mail-in voting. It could have been done if we were all down with it in May. Too many people dragged it out too long, and now it’s too late. I don’t like it, either.
     
  9. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    With something as massive as figuring out how to securely allow 135-140 MILLION people to vote, it's not something anyone can get right in a matter of a few months. With all the tech we have these days, relying on outdated and proven inaccurate voter rolls, we should be able to do better.

    I sat and watched a damned USPS mail carrier bring a package to my door. Despite having numbers on my house, he left a package for my neighbor on my doorstep. I get it, working on Sunday sucks, but the guy apparently wasn't even trying. Not the guy I want delivering my ballot.

    The "false dichotomy" argument liberals are using is:

    1) You either want mail-in-voting,
    2) Or you want to suppress voting.

    Uh, no. I reject that argument. That presumes that mail-in-voting is the only alternative to voting in person. That's a false dichotomy, and it's disgusting.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  10. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    And what of those originating, or at least attempting to get a start, in the Senate?
     
  11. ellesdee

    ellesdee Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t accuse anyone of voter suppression, at least not within this context.
     
  12. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    But he didn't, and even if he did, a dozen or so examples do not invalidate all the evidence establishing that it is fraudulent, Barr knows that, he is just following the script, attempting to frame the issue before it even happens, kinda like he has done with other matters involving Trump

    Of course it happens, there are instances of fraud in all methods of voting, but no where to the degree Barr was attempting to imply, as I noted, five States have been using it for years now proving Barr wrong

    Your doing math on something that has yet to occur, there is a mathematical probability we could get hit by lightening tomorrow, which is even higher than voter fraud, but I bet you aren't going to stay indoors based upon that probability
     
  13. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    I never said you said that.
     
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  14. archives

    archives Well-Known Member

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    Then what is the another alternative to voting in person?

    And given that those opposing mail in voting have yet to offer any substantial evidence as to it being fraudulent has to lead another to think there is an alternative motive here, and given that indications are more Democrats will vote that way, the motive ain't all that hard to see
     
  15. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    Of course not, he has only limited time with the talking heads.

    It's fraudulent enough to consider it less secure, along with the FACT that voter rolls are outdated, mail isn't reliably delivered, etc. The evidence is sound.

    The fallacy there, as I pointed out already, is that you do not need "massive" fraud to change a national election. When the elections are close, you only need to cheat in a few districts. It's amazing how people can't understand this simple point.

    An entire election was tossed in NJ due to mail-in-voter fraud just this year. Yeah, let's have a national do-over election for President and see how that goes.
     
  16. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    You may not like the proposals, and NONE of what I've thought of would be ready in time. But with technology, there are ways to make online voting - WITH the correct audit of the systems - more secure than mail voting.

    I've posted the link about a half dozen times now. There's plenty of evidence of mail-in-voting fraud at the level that would cast doubt on the legitimacy of an election. I'm not going to keep spamming evidence that liberals keep ignoring. It gets old.
     
  17. ellesdee

    ellesdee Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn’t say people want to suppress votes, but I think some voter ID policies can and do suppress legit votes.
     
  18. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    How? The same people claiming they are suppressed don't seem to have a problem getting a DL so they can buy beer, or an EBT card.

    The ONLY people who I think get lost in all of this are the elderly. The lame excuse that voter IDs disenfranchises minorities is complete and utter BS. There are PLENTY of elderly people of sound mind who legitimately find it difficult to get out to get an ID but who still want to vote. And for THAT population, I fully support age limitations for voter ID (in other words, if you're over 70, you don't need an ID, as a suggestion).
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
  19. ellesdee

    ellesdee Well-Known Member

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    I can’t pretend like I know everything, but I’ve read the stats estimating huge numbers of unintentionally suppressed votes. I don’t like to make generalizations about people I don’t know, but I think the argument is logical. I’m not against voter ID, I just think such ID needs to be easy to get, like you don’t even need to leave your home, and free.
     
  20. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    Well, let's address the alleged suppressed votes (because people are too lazy - OR TOO ELDERLY - to get an ID) and see what we can do.
     
  21. ellesdee

    ellesdee Well-Known Member

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    And also because I’m in a wheelchair, so I know how much trouble it can be to go out and get an ID.
     
  22. 21Bronco

    21Bronco Well-Known Member

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    And we should all want to make accommodations and allowances to make it as easy as possible for someone in your situation to vote. I don't think you're in the majority population of people claiming their votes are suppressed, but your vote absolutely should count.

    As I've gotten older and my parents have aged and died, I realize that one day I won't be as capable as I've been blessed to be now. My heart goes out to you, and people in your situation should have a manner of voting that is convenient. Hope you're doing well despite your challenges. If you're not, let me know in a PM.
     
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  23. ellesdee

    ellesdee Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. I appreciate that. It’s an issue that’s pretty personal for me now. It was a hard transition to go from 6’ athlete to a wheelchair overnight, and I try to be an advocate because I’m a pretty confident writer and know how to pull at people’s heartstrings. ;)
     
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