Benjamin Watson to ‘unveil the truth about abortion’ in documentary featuring Dr. Ben Carson, Alveda

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by XXJefferson#51, Mar 1, 2020.

  1. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    I think that should be one of government's goals personally. Though, when it comes to abortion, we need to consider when in the process of pregnancy that a life which should be protected by government action actually exists. To simply say that "all life should be protected" (by government) as some are prone to, is far too broad, as that would include things like skin, sperm, and egg cells, as well as non-human entities even: plants, bugs, harmful parasites, bacteria, etc. etc.... so some further qualifications are needed. Tacking on the word innocent is insufficient in my opinion. Personally, I believe that when it comes to deciding law at least, cutoff points based on Pain Perception and or Mental Life/Consciousness should be the gold standard instead, particularly using ranges such as something from among the following:

    -Thalamic Afferents (Week 20): Because its been theorized that connections between afferents may be capable of pain transmission
    -Thalamocortical Fibers (Week 23): Because a fetus cannot suffer feel or perceive pain without Thalamocortical Fibers
    -Thalamocortical Fibers (Week 29): Because a fetus cannot suffer feel or perceive pain without Functional Thalamocortical Fibers
    -Pain Perception Dvmnt (Week 23-29): Because a fetus cannot suffer feel or perceive pain without Functional Thalamocortical Fibers
    -Pain Perception Dvmnt (Week 20-29): Because this is the period in which a fetus develops the structures necessary for pain perception
    -Mental Life (Week 29): Because fetal consciousness cannot and has not been observed to occur before this point

    ...and on that note, what is your opinion of this abortion reform compromise proposal?
    A bunch of us here at politicalforum came up with this a while back following a Ranked Vote on the subject.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/pf-abortion-reform-compromise.550627/
    -Meta
     
  2. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    Exactly!! It isn't black and white. And you're definitely asking the right questions here. Who's rights matter more?...
    I'd say that both sets of rights matter. But when in the process does/should a developing human even gain those rights to begin with?
    My belief is that they should be gained once the ability for Pain Perception and or Mental Life/Consciousness has been achieved.
    And it follows that the mother's rights always outweigh rights that are yet to exist. Though I would add that there is some point in the process, where if the mother has had reasonable opportunity to end the pregnancy earlier, and Pain Perception and or Mental Life/Consciousness has been achieved by a fetus as a result of the mother not doing so, then the pregnancy reaching that stage should be thought of as negligence on the part of the mother (assuming they weren't intending to carry the child to term), and I think it makes sense to think of the fetus's rights as outweighing the mother's at that point. In general anyway... but then we get into all of the exception cases (e.g. threats to life/health, fetal abnormalities etc.)... but all that really does is act to bolster the fact that it isn't nearly as simple an issue as some people try to make it to be.

    -Meta
     
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  3. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Adoption agencies should not be allowed to place arbitrary restrictions on those adoptions.
    If they cannot do what is best for the children then they deserve to close.
     
  4. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Donor

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    It’s ok if the children aren’t adopted; forcing the homosexual agenda on society is more important.
     
  5. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How is wanting children to be adopted to stable families regardless of their religion or orientation “forcing the homosexual agenda”? Sounds like pushing your beliefs on children is what is more important here — seems like projection on your part.

    Not surprising
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2020
  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Adoption agencies already do place a lot of stringent requirements and restrictions on parents seeking to adopt. Many of these are understandable but could still be described as somewhat arbitrary and potentially "unfair" to prospective parents.
     
  7. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Demanding parents follow a specific cult is far from arbitrary or unfair.
     
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I thought we were talking about keeping children out of a cult.
     
  9. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I support parents instilling whatever values they choose in their child as long as it does not cause harm — including religious preferences, I do not support agencies of the state dictating those terms however. If it is a privately funded adoption agency with children that are placed by the birth parents that is one thing — when children are placed there by the state and then incentivized with taxpayer money it becomes an injustice to deny parents because of irrelevant qualifications.
     
  10. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How do we define harm?
     
  11. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Physical or psychological abuse, things that cause future damage...
     
  12. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is inside of and attached to the woman's body, therefore it is part of her.



    Anti choicers are not entitled to the progeny of another.
     
  13. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It shows what a dumbass he is.
     

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