Better data needed about gun violence

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Galileo, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    (starting at about 11:00)

    Arthur Kellermann, in research funded by the Centers for Disease Control, found that gun ownership significantly increased the likelihood of homicide, suicide, and gun accidents. The NRA didn't like the results of the research. The NRA was successful in getting the Dickey Amendment passed which resulted in CDC funding for such research drying up. Now there is simply not enough funding available to adequately research gun violence and the NRA likes it that way. Gary Wintermute of UC Davis had to spend one million dollars of his own money to study the relationship between alcohol consumption and gun violence. Doctors have even been pressured into not collecting data about gun violence even though they collect very detailed information about other types of deaths and injuries.

    The government records very detailed information about automobile fatalities such as weather conditions, driver behavior, seat belt use, etc. This information has resulted in legislation which has made driving a much safer activity. Car deaths have fallen 27% since 1975. So we know that such data can be very useful. The NRA, however, would rather just bury its head in the sand and ignore the possibility that many lives could be saved and injuries prevented with better research.
     
  2. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    What legislation would be passed by any new data that has already been suggested, and either turned away as unconstitutional, ineffective, unenforceable and unnecessary or passed by state legislatures that didn't need data to pass laws that are unconstitutional, ineffective, unenforceable and unnecessary?

    In other words, if the CDC was fully funded, what would change? Democratic majority states with rubber stamp federal courts don't need data to pass laws and Republican majority states won't pass laws that are unconstitutional, ineffective, unenforceable and unnecessary.

    Is it that a 52nd study on gun control and gun violence might actually find something?

    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5214a2.htm
     
  3. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let's do a study that looks at the criminal history of the shooters so we can ask ourselves why these people are allowed to roam free, and how felons get guns and why they aren't prosecuted under existing laws.

    Let's do another study that looks into why individuals in 6% of the population account for 52% of murders over the last 30 years.
     
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  4. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Arthur Kellerman was proven to be a fraud when it was discovered he counted firearms brought by the criminal as firearms within the home.

    Funding was cut to the center for disease control when it was discovered they were misappropriating funds earmarked for research, and instead using it for the purpose of building a political case for greater firearm restrictions, which has nothing to do with their stated mission.

    Motor vehicle-related deaths are often the results of accidents. Firearm-related deaths are often the result of deliberate acts and count as homicides. The two are not in any way related to one another.

    Beyond such, according to data presented by the FBI, the chief law enforcement organization for the entire united states, firearm-related deaths are at the lowest levels they have been in more than half a century, all without any studies conducted by any organizations, attempting to paint the matter as a public health issue.

    You have rehashed this point numerous times, and have been presented with the same facts time and time again. It is time to cease revisiting old territory that has been discredited numerous times over.
     
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  5. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Everyone here knows Kellermann and his inane study was discredited long ago.
    Everyone.
     
  6. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    The center for disease control is not legally prohibited from studying firearm-related violence. They are simply not provided any federal funding for such studies and research. If private entities wish to commission a study, and supply the funding necessary for that to be done, there are no legal restrictions in place to prevent such.
     
  7. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The left wants taxpayer dollars to pay for it.
    The left wants taxpayer dollars to pay for everything.
     
  8. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    That's simply not true.

    I doubt you have any evidence of what their intent was.

    I think some progress has been made by keeping more of the demographic that have a greater tendency to misuse guns locked up. However, America still has a long way to go. Its gun death rate is still way higher than the gun death rates of other developed nations.
     
  9. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Pray tell how so?

    The language of the appropriations legislation responsible for the budget of the center for disease control is quite clear and specific. None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the centers for disease control and prevention may be used to advocate or promote firearm-related restrictions. That is the long and the short of what is said.

    Pray tell, has there ever been a point in the history of so-called "other developed nations" where this has not been a constant? Has there ever point a point in the history of these nations here they experienced more firearm-related deaths than the united states?

    Beyond such, why do you single out firearm-related deaths when referring to other nations? Should we conclude such to mean that all other manners of death exceed those experienced by the united states?
     
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  10. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Better data needed about gun violence
    ************


    Important factoid;

    There is NO such thing as "Gun Violence"
    Only Crimes of Violence and Violent Crime.

    Why is this an important distinction ?

    Most Crimes are commited by repeat Violent offenders that use a wide variety of Violent methodology that is not mainly limited to firearms, criminals use many types of weapons to terrorize victims for intimidation, extortion etc...

    The misnomer "Gun Violence" is a literary device designed against Legitimate Gun Owners and a means and reason to Disarm them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2017
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  11. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's the only way they can blame suicide on guns.
     
  12. Maccabee

    Maccabee Well-Known Member

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    Kellerman has been thoroughly debunked numerus times. Why are you bringing him up?
     
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  13. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Because in the absence of facts, he uses available hyperbole and fallacy, people like him hate facts, I go by My extensive firearms training and life experience / personal defense / Military experience, which people like him instantly dismiss as Anecdotal evidence, yet they quote unverified Third party sources as fact ????

    This is Hypocrisy in its purest form.

    Anti Gun Advocates have a distinct Agenda and make decisions based on this Agenda, they dismiss Logic and verified facts out of hand and espouse Lies and falsehoods and toss their credibility out the window with Truth and facts, and they refuse to admit Gun Control is based on pure Fantasy and foolish statements.
     
  14. An Taibhse

    An Taibhse Well-Known Member

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    When I want to learn about guns, combat tactics, or increasing my shooting skills I don't seek out statistics or the rankings of some pseudo science type, I go to experience. One of the best was a WWII vet, turned LE with decades of real experience. Then there is nothing better than your own experience... you often separate myth from reality when you have been in the thick of it. It beats arm chair Hollywood U every time.
     
  15. Galileo

    Galileo Well-Known Member

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    No one here has been able to debunk any of his studies. You guys just mindlessly parrot the things you read on pro-gun fringe websites.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2017
  16. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Those present have already demonstrate the fallacies of the study put forth by Kellerman. He has indeed been debunked, and debunked quite thoroughly. He counted deaths that did not involve firearms if there was a firearm within the home, because supposedly the presence of a firearm somehow motivated the killing. He refrained from counting defensive firearm uses within the home if the one being defended against was an intruder. He admitted that the use of alcoholic beverages, illicit substances, and domestic violence all played a part in the available statistics that were presented.
     
  17. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe that having a gun house increases your chance of being murdered by a knife of hammer?
     
  18. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    His study showed that renting a home or living alone added more risk to the chance of being murdered than having a gun in the house did, as did using illegal drugs. If only drugs weren't so easy to get.
     
  19. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    You know this statement is false.
     
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  20. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    I do not bother reading anything on Pro Gun web sites.
    My own experiences are enough.
    I also consult others with similar life experiences.
     
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  21. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    He is a widely respected researcher
     
  22. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Do you believe having a gun in the house makes it more likely you'll be murdered by a knife or hammer?
     
  23. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you want to predict gun violence, get a map, draw circles around the liberal utopias, and you won't be disappointed by the accuracy and simplicity of the method...
     
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  24. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    This has already been done.

    High crime: Blue
    Low crime: Red

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Comprehensive Data on VIOLENCE of all types would be a distinct improvement as well as ending the term / misnomer Gun Violence.
     
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