Biden administration gives Maduro regime lifeline as Venezuelans cry foul

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by sec, Dec 6, 2022.

  1. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    31,639
    Likes Received:
    7,735
    Trophy Points:
    113
    https://www.foxnews.com/world/biden-administration-gives-maduro-regime-lifeline-venezuelans-cry-foul

    HYPERLINK has full article

    snip

    As the U.S Treasury department issued a license to Chevron to drill for oil in Venezuela, relaxing 2019 sanctions applied to Venezuela under the Trump administration, Venezuelan dissidents are crying foul, reminding the world that the Maduro regime continues to engage in what are internationally recognized crimes against humanity...................

    Venezuela remains the most egregious abuser of human rights in the Americas, and according to a U.N. report in 2019 is complicit in 7,000 cases of extrajudicial killings since mass protests began against the Maduro government.

    end snip

    I find this interesting. The current train wreck we are in is due to the Democrat war on fossil fuel. Democrats claim that it's about saving the planet. Reality is that the need for fossil fuel isn't going away especially since more is needed to recharge the electric cars.

    So, why not save actual humans by not supporting a murderous regime? Why not improve the economy by drilling and refining here in the good ole USA.

    It would appear that our Democrat admin doesn't care about human lives
     
    USVet and AARguy like this.
  2. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Maybe they have given up on Venezuela ever changing and concluded that sanctions don't work. Which they never do.

    So maybe they have decided to go with the China model. That is to say, open up their economy through trade and slowly convert the Venezuelan economy to capitalism while the communist party leadership becomes a dictatorship, but largely just a figurehead that becomes increasingly irrelevant to the system.
     
  3. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    31,639
    Likes Received:
    7,735
    Trophy Points:
    113

    Venezuela was prosperous before Chavez turned it socialist and propped up the country by nationalizing oil , telco and electric (long story there)

    it in turn created a cultural issue, not economic. The well-to-do and talented left the country and many times, the govt seized assets of those who were leaving; but they still left.

    How does one then tell the folks that the gravy train of free stuff is over and they need to become productive and competitive? That is the cultural issue and how VZ became a crap-hole.

    And, leftist governments need to silence the free media and punish opposition. Heck, we see that in the USA. It's worse in VZ
     
  4. wgabrie

    wgabrie Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    13,830
    Likes Received:
    3,054
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm under the impression that Venezuela has low-quality oil which while it was historically able to make a profit in the world market, technology has created other sources of high-quality oil which will forever reduce the demand for VZ oil regardless of whatever economic system they use.

    While I would like to take the time to investigate the Venezuelan system to find out what is going on there and make suggestions on how to fix it, currently, I have my own things going on, and I don't really have the time to make this a full-time career.

    That said, however, I think the VZ people would be more open to change if they could see that they would make better money in a free market economy and have diverse and better quality goods available to them instead of the freebies they get from socialism. But, first, it would need to be proven that they would actually make better money and benefit from a free market instead of being another third-world country exploited for their resources by external parties and receiving no benefits to that country. But instead, the people are forgotten about.

    The key to not getting exploited would be for them to diversify their country's income-generating sectors instead of relying solely on oil revenues for their country's income source. Maybe tourism? I don't know what VZ has to offer besides low-quality oil.

    As for a lack of free media, of course the government there needs to squash dissent. They can't hold onto power if the truth is told. On the other hand, when the USSR dissolved, Russia came to be ruled by the Russian mafia. It wasn't a completely free conversion from communism to free market capitalism. The corruption there continues to this day. The old guard never left.
     
  5. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    31,639
    Likes Received:
    7,735
    Trophy Points:
    113

    VZ was not a third world country prior to Chavez. I stopped doing business there a while ago as it became unsafe. Caracas was once a very cosmopolitan city and jewel of S America. As the Chavez, and later Maduro regimes took over, and things got nationalized, the infrastructure crumbled, you could not find medicine and the country fell into disrepair. But, folks had been weened on free and subsidized stuff and did not want that to end. So, the evil USA and evil rich folk who were fleeing the country were the reason, not failed socialism.

    VZ must break free of its cultural problem first and foremost but it will be a tough pill to swallow to realize that govt cannot provide for you.
     
  6. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,752
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It was socialism that motivated them to flee.
     
  7. Bob Newhart

    Bob Newhart Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    Messages:
    3,585
    Likes Received:
    1,432
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What Biden's doing here is incredibly silly.

    upload_2022-12-11_6-44-13.png
     
  8. sec

    sec Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Messages:
    31,639
    Likes Received:
    7,735
    Trophy Points:
    113

    umm, that is what i said
     
  9. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113


    You and Fox got it so wrong on so many levels.

    It's not according to a UN report that 7,000 people got killed extrajudicial. It's according to an American who is a UN ambassador. The report she thinks says it's 7,000 cases doesn't mention that number at all. It's all after reviewing 1000's of cases it's 30 here, 50 there. In no way it's going to add u to 1000's as if this was all orchestrated from the federal government. For the luls, the report:
    https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-rele...n-report-urges-accountability-crimes-against-

    And of course it's an repressive regime, where democracy isn't exactly up to par. But there is still something. Maduro doesn't even win everything there is to win. All in all, it's a far cry of what goes on in the middle east, where there is absolutely no democracy at all. While the US has absolutely no problem with doing as much business with most of those countries. You can only judge that the US hasn't been fair to single out Venezuela like that on that merit.

    While the economic woes in Venezuela have been inflicted by the US. Their economy went straight downhill since the US put up a massive economic blockade against that country. That was done under Trump. And fair or not, those economic troubles is causing Venezuelan's to move to the US illegally. It's therefor fair to say that the US/Trump shot itself in the foot with causing a massive influx of illegal immigrants. And so it's smart that Biden is giving some of the prosperity back, so people have jobs in Venezuela and there is a lesser reason to leave.

    While under Biden, the oil industry is still pumping up more oil than what they did on average under Trump. The argument that Biden caused an oil shortage in the US, raising oil prices and the economic train wreck is simply fake. What is causing the shortage is that the EU switched from Russian oil to American oil on a massive scale. That is causing a massive shortage in supply in the US, and so the price skyrocketed. That's how capitalism works. And them little projects Biden killed in the US, is not going to put any dent in that massive shortage caused by the EU swallowing up all that precious American oil. So "Why not improve the economy by drilling and refining here in the good ole USA."... is not going to help anything.


    All in all:
    The US would need to amp up around 50% above the highest amount of oil it ever produced a year to satisfy the need of no more Russian oil!!! It flat out can not manage that. In no way would the US ever come close to that number.
    Hence Venezuela is back on the list.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2022
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope. It was strict economic blockade against Venezuela.
    Their economy was mostly about selling oil and investing the profit in their country. Efficient of not, their economy collapsed because the US made sure they didn't have enough customers to sustain their business model.

    To claim it was just their socialism, is just a rather childish approach.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2022
  11. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,752
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I've been childish for many decades. Thanks for the insult. Did you not understand that the oil company is owned and managed by the government? It is at the root of the country's socialism.
     
  12. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So what. Saudi Aramco is also state owned. And Saudi Arabia is thriving because it's state owned oil company is able to sell oil to who ever. It's literally the only reason why that country is thriving. That country would be going down the drain if the US and it's allies who are the primary customers place a ban of buying that oil, just like they did to Venezuela. Let me remind you that freaking Saudi pee stain Arabia is not only a place with no democracy but a place where women are 2nd class Jim Crow style. You would think the US would boycot that country, but noooo... lets nuke the Venezuelan economy and blame the government for not being able to find any customers to make money.

    And I have yet to see you find that inner child in you and respond that the massive boycot that the US put in place for petty reasons, has zero effect. I'm up for a laugh.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2022
    FreshAir likes this.
  13. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,752
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Laugh away.
     
  14. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,752
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    But not state operated like Venezuela. The Saudis are smart enough to stay in their lane.
     
  15. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    30,971
    Likes Received:
    28,436
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Under the covers, the democratic party and these authoritarian dictators are actually the same group of people. No surprise here.
     
  16. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I see you're not responding
     
  17. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    State owned is state owned. The only difference is Venezuela is being economically blocked for being partially democratic while Saudi is a full fletched sharia installed woman hating dictatorship and is allowed to trade with the entire world.
     
  18. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,752
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is but state run is not company run. I wasn't weighing the amount of authoritarianism in each country. I was just explaining why the Saudi's oil business works because it is a business. There is nothing democratic about either country.
     
  19. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,752
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That was my response.
     
  20. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    42,019
    Likes Received:
    5,395
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Saudi Arabia erected the company Aramco to do it's affairs. It's fully state owned.
    Venezuela erected PDVSA. It's also fully state owned.

    There is no difference.
     
  21. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2009
    Messages:
    37,752
    Likes Received:
    14,562
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The Saudi government doesn't mess with Aramco which is the company that operates the country's oil production. Even some American companies are allied to Aramco. There are American oil people working at Aramco. The opposite is true in Venezuela. Here is a Forbes article you can read.
     
    FreshAir likes this.
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Americans wanted cheaper oil, just the reality of it

    would republicans rather have higher priced oil?
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2022
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    not to mention what they did to a reporter under Trump
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,175
    Likes Received:
    62,815
    Trophy Points:
    113
    the current problem is Saudi is artificially reducing supply as is American oil

    we have plenty of oil, so much we are exporting, but greedy oil execs what to sell it for much higher prices, competition is good when it comes to natural resources like oil
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2022
  25. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    25,728
    Likes Received:
    8,770
    Trophy Points:
    113
    More to the point, what right has the US got to issue a license to any company to drill for oil in another country
     

Share This Page