Biden: America will be a beacon of hope for LGBTQ rights again

That gay people are fragile little beings that need protection. They're human just like you.

 

Thank you and I appreciate the sentiment and agree with you one hundred percent. My follow-up to Progressive Patriot would have been that I feel the same about any unjust attack causing significant bodily harm on any citizen. Like you, I agree that any unjust attack should be prosecuted as an unjust attack, regardless of the motivations or who the victim is.

 

Except tat they are not being punished for bigoted views. They are being punish for a behavior that intimidates and terrorizes an entire community

 

I never made that assumption and have, on numerous occasions stated that we are all essentially the same. And as I have also stated here, enhanced penalties for hate crimes do not treat the victims in any special way. They treat the perpetrator in a special way and rightfully so.

 

No, they are being punished for thoughts. The behavior that intimidates and terrorizes the community is whatever they were arrested or sentenced for. Adding time because of what they thought is punishing thought.

 

No forfeit of credibility at all, you jumped to a conclusion before you had all the data.

My follow-up is that I also believe that the perpetrator of an unjust attack that causes significant bodily injury to ANY citizen deserves the death penalty. The same... equal... fair... unbiased... doesn't require any Orwellian delving into the minds of individuals and punishing them for their assumed thoughts. And "hate crime" legislation adds extra layers to court cases, more burden on the system, it really is illogical. All violent criminals should get maximum penalties.

Yep, I dislike criminals very much, regardless of the motive for their unjust attacks. You claim my position is wrong, but perhaps you are wrong, perhaps your judgment is clouded by your identity. You act all superior and want to dismiss my opinion, and you don't even realize that you are being biased and bigoted. And then it turns out that I value the LGBTQ community more than you do. I want that damn criminal that assaulted the LGBTQ person to be dead so he can't do it again. You are soft on the criminal that would commit such an act. But yet you want his act to punished harsher than if he had assaulted someone of his own group. Your position is not logical.

 

So what rights is Biden a beacon of that Trump is not?

I agree, it's about adding extra time to sentences. It's about punishing people extra for what they think.

I don't think a perpetrator that breaks a lady's nose and steals her purse is any worse than a perpetrator that breaks a lady's nose and steals her purse because she is Jewish.

It's the same crime. The only thing in the latter that makes it a hate crime is because the perp didn't like Jews. That is thought crime.

 

If you say so. It appears that I will not be able to convince you otherwise. You are a complicated and interesting person. We do not have to adversaries but I am troubled buy your stance on this issue as well as your attitude towards Muslims. Never the less......have a good evening

 

I'm more than willing to be convinced. I just don't think a person that murders someone because they want their money is any better than a person that murders someone because they don't like Navajo.

A person is still murdered the crimes are equally heinous they deserve equal punishment.

I'm happy to hear explanation why one is worse than the other.

I don't view you as an adversary. I understand my view points are a bit off from what is common. And I'm happy to explain. I do apologize for being less tactful earlier. I do value conversation with people who don't agree with me.

I haven't presented any views on Muslims, just on Islam. Islam is an ideology that Muslims suffer under the most.

For perspective. I'm not a fan of Mormonism. I think that ideology is broken and hard mostly on Mormons. I don't hate Mormons, I'm married to a Mormon. I know how he was treated because of the ideology but I love the Mormon, it is because of him that I feel the way I do.

Do you understand it's not about Muslim people? It's about Islam.

I know a veteran of Afghanistan. He is a gay man. I've talked to him a lot about something he saw happen to a teenaged Muslim boy that was gay. I don't even want to tell you what happened because it's so horrible. And it's based on what was done to a Muslim because of Islam.

If you want to hear the story... Beware you can't unhear it I'll post it in a private thread. I don't know if I can post it here.

But it's about how they treat Muslims that are gay. It's about the prescriptions of Islam not the people being executed.

You do so as well, hope you are doing well through the pandemic I know it's a lot worse in your part of the country.

 

What is that about my identity.? What exactly do you think that you know about me. You're just further eroding you credibility with this bovine excrement. Your " kill the perps that prey on LGBT" crap is just not believable

 

1. You made assumptions about me when you tried your - "Would you also have a problem with a Muslim who attacks Christians being charged with a hate crime?" And you are still making assumptions when you assume "bovine excrement." So it is only fair that I make assumptions about you.

2. What I assume about you is that you think a criminal should be punished extra for his thoughts instead of just for his actual violent acts.

3. Your mind-reading skills are poor. I seriously dislike criminals and anyone who unjustly attacks and seriously harms another should be permanently removed from society. So yes, I do want the death penalty for all violent criminals, regardless of their motives or who they attack. Being soft on crime only promotes more crime.

Just for the sake of discussion, say a person unjustly beats a citizen severely, putting him in the hospital with a coma for a month. What should the punishment be?

Case 1 - The perp yelled a homophobic slur and the victim was a homosexual.
Case 2 - The perp yelled a homophobic slur and the victim was a heterosexual.
Case 3 - The perp did not yell the slur and the victim was homosexual.
Case 4 - The perp did not yell the slur, and the victim was heterosexual.

I'll answer first... death penalty in all 4 cases.

You?

 

So if I understand this thread correctly, the OP thinks that an attack on me is a lesser crime than an attack on someone from a specific identity group. My life is worth less.

Got it.

 

~ Joe is real - a real senile bigot and sexist who will lead the U.S. down the toilet of lawlessness and social chaos - gays, straight, transgender , undecided and confused included. He is as fake and evil as Hillary Clinton. We all suffer as a nation with today's Democratic Party.
I know some folks are just too desperate to replace Trump with another Obama , but at least wait until blundering Biden is replaced with someone else.

 

That was not an assumption. It was a question. You answered it. To your credit , at least you are consistent

 

We have been all through that. I can't help it if your comprehension skills are to poor to allow you to understand that I am not saying that at all.

 

I will not allow you to derail this discussion into a debate about the death penalty. I(f that is what's on your mind, start a thread about it

 

Give me a damned break with this inane equine excrement!~

 

Just substitute Donald for Joe and Republican Party for Democrat and reads even better

 

You think that people deserve to be punished for their thoughts. You want the government to essentially attempt to control people's thinking. I believe in the First Amendment and free speech (and free thought). I want all violent criminals punished very harshly, regardless of their thoughts or motives or words. You want the punishment to be based on their thoughts and words. There is nothing that establishes your position as the proper course, regardless of what you think.

You think that you have the moral high ground. You don't. The death penalty is not the point, and I do not seek a discussion on that matter. The point being made is that I want even harsher penalties for criminals that unjustly attack LGBTQ citizens than you do. Again, you do not have the moral high ground simply because you support harsh "hate" crime punishments.

You want extra penalties for hate crimes. I want extra penalties for ALL crimes. That is all there is to it.

You have been quick to deride others' positions in this thread when they disagree with your opinions. You will accept nothing less than full agreement with your opinions, and when you don't get that, you resort to the tired and stale "bovine excrement" and "equine excrement" exclamations. You quickly become confrontational and you are very closed-minded to people that have different opinions than you. I dare say that your words exhibit a certain amount of bias and bigotry.

So what is your opinion about the extent of punishment of hate crimes? Have you given that any thought? What should the increased punishments be?

 

I was reading back through the thread. The last sentence is very wise. So wise, in fact, that we should even apply this kind of thinking to all sorts of things, even to the punishment of criminals. It is actions that matter - not thoughts or words.

 

At this point, I'm not sure if you're pretending to be stupid, playing a sick game or if you are in fact that obtuse. How many times and in how many ways do I have to that I am not suggesting that people be punished for their thoughts? How many more times do I have to explain how a crime motivated by hate directed towards a specific is more serious than other crimes-which is what they should be punished for?

You are just making a damned fool of yourself and anyone who is watching this knows it. You have NO ****ing credibility. You started this with a post deriding hate crime laws saying that gays should not be given special treatment. I responded by pointing our that under these laws, it is the perpetrator who receives "special" treatment .

And still you seem to be unable to grasp how such crimes differ from other crimes. You want every one who commits a violent crime put to death. That is barbaric and just plain stupid.

And I will tell you another thing. I most certainly am open to the opinions of others- when they make sense and back them up with facts and logic with you have failed to do. Yes I am confrontational because I have not patience with idiocy.

Speaking of idiocy, you asked "So what is your opinion about the extent of punishment of hate crimes?{" How the **** is anyone supposed to be able to answer that? What are you looking for ? A percentage? A specific # of years in the can over and above what the usual sentence would be? What state and what are the sentencing guidelines? WHAT???

Finally you had the colossal nerve to call be a bigot!! Who the **** am I bigoted against? Never mind, it's a common refrain of bigots to call other bigiots. And that brings me to my final comment. I don't believe for a second that you give a rats ass about LGBT people You're post where you said that if they really wanted to be equal they would not seek or expect "special treatment" wreaked of sarcasm. Now get out of my face!

 

Of course they are not. But my pint is that the impact of the crime on the entire community that the victim is a member of must b e considered. It is on the level of terrorism

 

No apology necessary. This is a refreshing experience, having a civil and reasonable exchange with someone who I have disagreements with. More later. Time to grill the chicken

 

Then charge the perpetrator with terrorism.

 

Enjoy.