Biden: America will be a beacon of hope for LGBTQ rights again

Discussion in 'Gay & Lesbian Rights' started by ProgressivePatriot, May 19, 2020.

  1. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    This is the same guy who in 1996 voted for the defense of marriage act... right? He's the same guy who voted against aids funding and research... right? Joe's not a real person. He's a character made up by his media handlers. Off script, he's a vile perv and racist. The reason you find the current administration hateful isn't because you know their policy, but because some running mouth on MSNBC told you what to think. How pathetic is that?
     
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  2. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    People don't give a **** about identity politics when the economy sucks and people are suffering. Biden should definitely run with this.
    That's what struggling people want the most when times are hard, a bunch of libs running around yelling in their faces about hate and demanding rights.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
  3. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, that rant pretty much sums up who you are and what you stand for.

    When I wrote: "I dare say that your words exhibit a certain amount of bias and bigotry," what I was referring to is that you are assuming the worst in others, you are looking for confrontations with "bad people that are homophobic" so you can express your indignation and righteousness. Read your last paragraph, because that right there sums up your biased thoughts. You assume that people who are against hate crime legislation are automatically anti-LGBTQ. You are really wanting me to be anti-LGBT because that will make you feel better about yourself. This is what you said: "I don't believe for a second that you give a rats ass about LGBT people" and then you said that you could read the sarcasm in my words. You are wrong.

    As for asking about the increased punishments, that is not a stupid question. If you feel that extra punishment is warranted, would it not be reasonable to also think about what that extra punishment should be? If you have not thought about that, you are simply being superficial.

    Now, back to the special treatment. Hate crime laws will require extra resources to prosecute because not only does the actual crime have to be investigated and proved, an entire other layer of investigation and proof is added on. That costs time and money and resources from the authorities, which is actually taxpayer funded. So yes, the victim is getting the benefit of extra resources used on the case that others won't have. Simply treating an unjust assault as an unjust assault is the logical thing to do. My goal is to keep law-abiding citizens safe from criminals. Perhaps your motivation for extra punishment is revenge aimed at the "evil homophobes"?

    As for making sense, you are not the sole judge of who or what is stupid, or who or what makes sense. You are not open to other's opinions - your treatment of others in this thread is a case in point.

    As for the death penalty, barbaric actions of criminals deserve barbaric actions from society. The law-abiding should not have to put up with criminals, and if we as a society took a much harsher view of criminal actions, the law-abiding citizens would be much safer.

    Another thought:
    1. A criminal unjustly assaults a LGBTQ citizen and it is deemed a hate crime so he gets "X" punishment for the assault and "Y" punishment for the hate crime. Total punishment is X + Y.
    2. A criminal unjustly assaults a non-LGBTQ citizen so he gets "X" punishment. Total punishment is X.
    3. The law-making body later decides that criminals who unjustly assault non-LGBTQ citizens will be punished by X + Y, making the punishment for unjust assaults equivalent.

    Would it bother you that the punishment for assaulting non-LGBTQ citizens is equivalent to the punishment for assaulting LGBTQ citizens in a hate crime? Would you then be in favor of increasing even further the punishment of criminals in number 1 above, so now the punishment would be X + Y + Z?
     
  4. ProgressivePatriot

    ProgressivePatriot Well-Known Member

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    I suppose. But what the opposition to hate crime charges?
     
  5. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I don't really understand the purpose. If you kill someone in a community it's going to shock and tramatize that community regardless of whether they are Jewish or a mixture of religions.

    Why should it matter if they were killed because they were Jewish, or they were killed because the murderer wanted their money? They both effect the community. I just don't understand why one is worthy of less punishment than the other.
     
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  6. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I was thinking something similar. If a criminal beats an old lady into a coma just for the $10 in her purse, and another criminal beats someone into a coma while yelling words of hate, does one deserve a harsher sentence than the other? Like you, I don't think so. They are both awful crimes that deserve equal punishment.
     
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  7. ProgressivePatriot

    ProgressivePatriot Well-Known Member

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    Every politician has made some bad choices and missteps at time. But Biden could go toe to toe against Trump on their records. The only decisions that Trump makes are those that will shore up his base of moronic minions or put money in his packett

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/joe-biden-has-a-complicated-record-on-public-health-crises

    Biden’s campaign, however, is more than happy to draw contrasts between the former vice president’s past work during public health crises and Trump’s.

    “Whether it was an early vote in 1987 authorizing critical funding for medication that prolonged the life of people with AIDS, his 1990 efforts passing the Ryan White Comprehensive AIDS Resources Emergency Care Act, or his work as vice president helping lead the 2014 Ebola epidemic response, Joe Biden has exemplified throughout his career what disciplined, trust-worthy leadership grounded in science looks like—a sharp contrast with Donald Trump,” said national press secretary Jamal Brown. “That’s why Joe Biden released a plan this week to combat the global coronavirus epidemic. We hope President Trump will adopt it.”

     
  8. ProgressivePatriot

    ProgressivePatriot Well-Known Member

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    Gentlemen! Give it a rest. I have explained my reasoning behind stiffer penalties for crimes motivated by hate. I am not going to convince either of you and I'm not going to change my view no matter how many times ya'all tell me that I'm wrong. That is in fact, all that I'm hearing as opposed to any counter argument stating why hate crime laws are not desirable or productive.
     
  9. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The DP will eventually do the same thing for gay Americans that it has done for black Americans -
    if given the chance.
     
  10. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    I heard your explanation. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

    A murder is a crime that will shake community you no matter what it was done for.

    Further someone who murdered someone 4/8 reasons you shouldn't be considered any more heinous than someone who murders someone for other reasons. Adding extra sentence on to it and saying that it is.
    it's not so much that you should be able to convince people but you should be able to rationalize in a way people understand.

    so far I don't see a point to the hate crime charge other than to and punishment based on what people were thinking when they committed the crime.
    the fact that something is desirable or not should never be part of any sentencing. If a municipality desired two sentences black people for more jail time that's desirable but it's wrong.

    It is imperative that Justice is blind.
     
  11. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    seems to me there is only reason to oppose stronger sentences for crimes motivated by bigotry...and that's to be nice to bigots.
     
  12. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not when one believes that the criminal bigot who unjustly assaulted or killed someone out of hate should get the death penalty, just like the non-bigot criminal who unjustly assaulted or killed the little old lady for $10 bucks should get the death penalty. Equal punishments. Some want to be harsh to only certain criminals. I want to be extremely harsh to all criminals.

    Since you seem to be for harsher punishments for those who commit a crime due to "wrong-think," what is the reason you want this? Is it for deterrence of future crimes? Revenge? Making the victim feel like he/she got justice? What exactly is the purpose?
     
  13. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    i dont think a murder committed due to hate should be the deciding factor between life in prison and execution.

    i think it should increase sentences, only.
     
  14. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What would be the purpose of the increased sentences? Deterrence of future crimes? Revenge? Making the victim feel that he or she got justice? What exactly is the purpose?
     
  15. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we always consider motivation when deciding how to punish a criminal.
     
  16. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No thoughts on the purpose of the punishment?
     
  17. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we punish people for crimes committed.
     
  18. roorooroo

    roorooroo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So what in your mind is the purpose of the punishment?
     
  19. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    to hold people accountable for their crimes
     
  20. ProgressivePatriot

    ProgressivePatriot Well-Known Member

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    You know what? I will acknowledge that there is some truth to what you say. I am cynical and angry because of the stupidity and bigotry that I see. If I have misjudged you, please accept my apology . However , I stand firm on my defense of hate crime laws and penalties . Having said that , allow me to offer this as a carrot;

     
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  21. Crownline

    Crownline Banned at Members Request

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    Maybe it’s you that should give it a rest. We have bigger battles right now and yours is just static and noise at this particular moment in time. We need to beat back this virus and get the economy up to speed again. I’m not anti gay at all. I’m not anti gay marriage either, but you are going to have to chill for a minute. Think deck chairs on the titanic.
     
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  22. ProgressivePatriot

    ProgressivePatriot Well-Known Member

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    Common Bro! A murder that is, shall we say, a crime of passion directed at a specific individual, as opposed one directed at members of a specific group does not instill the same level of fear a that crime directed in an entire population does. I am still waiting to hear an argument against hate crime laws as opposed to just being told tat they are unnecessary.
     
  23. ProgressivePatriot

    ProgressivePatriot Well-Known Member

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    Yes well perhaps it is not the most pressing issue, but that mean that we should put civil rights on the back burner. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
     
  24. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    Okay I understand why you support this but I can't agree with it. The justice system is not a tool designed to alleviate fear. Videos to make sure that people who are accused are first responsible for the crime they're being accused of, and second to make the punishment fit the crime.

    Any murder of somebody is directed at the entire population. We all belong to the group of human. Why does that not matter but race or religion does?
    Well I've already presented an argument against classifying things as hate crimes. That's punishing people more for thoughts and feelings.

    Also it says that killing someone because they're Jewish is worse than killing someone because you wanted their money. And you deserve more punishment for it which I disagree with.

    And to use your standard the fear it engenders onto the public, the entirety of the population would have greater fear from someone who kills people for money because they're all people and they all have money. They all fit this group.
     
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  25. Polydectes

    Polydectes Well-Known Member

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    So you can't talk about anything until the coronavirus is finished?

    He's talking about a candidate for presidential election, which is a very topical issue.

    Not everybody wants to talk about coronavirus 24-7
     

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