Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by chris155au, Feb 18, 2021.
Sounds like a perfect setup for a Thucydides trap.
How am I moving the goal posts? To confirm, my claim is that the media took him out of context. THEREFORE, in doing that, they didn't provide context!
Good, but do you suppose that they were somehow prevented from taking Trump out of context?
Yes, including taking Obama out of context, right?
Yes, because he only had one news outlet to whine about!
OOOOOH LA LA
Amazing now life flips on a dime!!
Numbers, identities? Locations of capture? Nothing? Just your word the US rounded folks up, on an ethnic basis, on the same magnitude, with the same purposes as the Chinese are now?
Yeah, but now we add a pandemic. Originated there. Biolab next door to origin. Shady, accountable to no one, government. Didn't let anyone in to study what was killing the world for over a year. Your first instinct is virus is natural occurrence? No no, the CCP is almost certainly the cause of over 1M worldwide deaths, vast economic destruction, and the fact I have to sweat all night in a face diaper, saw my mom twice last year, etc.
And, from the opposition I'm getting from merely pointing out the obvious, and the spineless inaction of world leaders (satisfied with the status quo and totally uninterested in a challenge) it appears those responsible are not going to be held to account. The most shameful event in world history...
China isn't at war . The US was. Look, I can make outrageous comparisons too: Yah know Stalin starved 20M people, but before we judge, look at all the bad stuff the US and Britain did from 1939-1945, just a couple of decades later. Please just look past the fact that the latter's acts were amidst the chaotic human behavior of war (which no society in history has mastered to the point of avoiding all civilian casualties), while the former was acting to prove a political/economic system was better than another.
Many of those that were placed in Guatanamo for years were never charged or even accused of any crime. Some are still there. And many were tortured under extraordinary rendition just because they lived in the same village as an accused terrorist.
"Dozens of the detainees are Afghan and Pakistani nationals described in classified intelligence reports as farmers, taxi drivers, cobblers and laborers. Some were low-level fighters conscripted by the Taliban in the weeks before the collapse of the ruling Afghan regime".
British Guantánamo detainees held for years 'just in case'
A waiter, a heating engineer and an Afghan farmer mistaken for a Briton have been among those locked away indefinitely at Guantánamo
Jamal al-Harith was rendered to Guantánamo simply because he had spent time in a Taliban prison in Afghanistan and was thought to have knowledge of Taliban interrogation techniques.
Harith, born Ronald Fiddler in Manchester in 1966, converted to Islam in his 20s and travelled widely in the Muslim world. He was detained near Kandahar by the Taliban because they suspected he was a British spy.
None of the 59 met U.S. screening criteria for determining which prisoners should be sent to Guantanamo Bay, military sources said. But all were transferred anyway, sources said, for reasons that continue to baffle and frustrate intelligence officers nearly a year after the first group of detainees arrived at the facility.
You changed your argument aka moved the goal posts:
1. Media never provided Trump context
2. Some media took him out of context
Two totally different arguments. I proved the initial argument wrong, so you changed your argument.
I have nothing further to day about this.
We shall see.
Thucydides trap implies the US feeling threatened by the rising influence of China, and based on the replies here (that US politicians should be SHOUTING about China, and that China is the greatest threat since Nazis), it is very much the case in the minds of many Americans. Such people suffer from inferiority complexes.
IMO we have no need to feel interior. Just because China has improved their economic situation doesn't mean that it takes something away from us. Its like being jealous that your friend got a raise, when it has no impact on your own situation.
You're still under the delusion that "providing context" means broadcasting speeches. That's idiotic.
You did not ask for numbers and identities and locations. - but were already given one location - Gitmo - Go look up how many were hosed there if it is published .. and the identities of some of the folks hose there is known.
I never claimed it was for exactly the same purpose as China .. however in this case - there are may similarities - the round up being of Muslims - and the claim of purpose being terrorism.
Feigning that you have never heard of Gitmo - is lame.
No clue what you are getting at mate - as similar examples from the US were not from WW2 .. After 911 we rounded up a whole bunch of Muslims and did not treat them very well.
Again, you guys are comparing the actions of one country, at war, on the battlefield, with a country, at peace, acting against its own citizens.
You are comparing dozens with millions. Ofc the US captured some who shouldn't have been. That's to be expected when you fight an enemy that doesn't wear uniforms and uses civilians as shields as a primary defense tactic. Ofc many who were captured were never tried. Just like 99.9% of all POWs in world history.
waidaminnit, what did the USA do from 1939-1945 that was "bad stuff"???
You do know that war involved millions? I'm sure if we had the internet/cells back then, one could have discovered all sorts of immoral behavior. Firebombing cities. Churchill firing on the French fleet killing thousands of French sailors so that the Germans couldn't capture. POW and civilian mistreatment. That's war; we haven't figured out a way to do it nicely.
Comparing actions while at war with peacetime actions can be misleading.
Who is "You Guys" .. and I already told you that many of the detainees rounded up after 911 were not on any battlefield .. and the US was not at war - and the rounding up was not during a war.
And it was not "dozens" - where are you getting this nonsense made up number from.
"Some captured who should not have been" - is a wild hyperbolic understatement .. you seem to have no understanding of the scope or size of the operation - and that is just what we know of.
We should be ordering the CIA to be releasing the full number of those rounded up - and what their fates were - how many were sent for extreme torture .. and so on
We know of a few .. such as Mahir Arar - a Canadian - arrested in Canada - who was send to our buddy Assad for questioning - turned out to have nothing to do with Al Qaeda.. or nothing that we can prove.
How is this fellow different than the Chinese rounding up some Uighur - and claiming some affiliation with a terrorist group - which is exactly what China is using as an excuse.
Didn't say these were exactly the same either - as you are desperately trying to infer .. and this is one cherry picked example our of many I gave .. one that you have completely failed to refute .. but moving on.
What about the mass war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by Obama/US and other Nations over the last decade in Syria -Yemen ?
This is just as bad - or at least comparably bad - to what China is doing - and arguably far worse.
You have completely avoided these things .. trying to paint some fairy tale black vs white picture of "Good vs Evil" - and engaging in selective moral outrage - on steroids.
OH, I see that made you a little upset.
Lemme think about that.
Oh, Hitler's Germany, Mussolini's Italy and Hirohito's Japan plunged the world into the most deadly war of all time and you are upset because the allies responded.... how interesting. You forgot to mention all the cities that Hitler firebombed into the middle ages.
So, nice try, but at the end, it's simply malarkey.
Why are you guys talking Adolf and others - as if this has relevance to China - in some significant way - this serves only to derail serious discussion of the issue - that issue being - where is the line ?
Clearly China is not doing what Adolf did - so lets not pretend that this is the line being crossed .. Lest we end up across it by our own actions
and then what ..
Lets cut the black vs white paradigms .. and hyperbole .. and come up with legitimate criticism -
Apparently you have jumped into a conversation without learning the full context.
I'm not upset at you.
I never judged the overall Allied response, much less got upset about it. I was simply pointing out how easy it is to cherry pick war decisions in order to judge a country as immoral. In reality, one who does this is only proving war is immoral.
Its absurd that you think the media should have provided context for Trump rather than allowing Trump to do it himself. The problem with your source is exactly that. They invent a context and then provide (feed) it to you in order to get you to believe their propaganda. It worked, since you not only believed it but are here to spread it to others.
It you want to know what politicians say, and what they mean, try listening to their own words as opposed to listening someone's else's spin on it. You are being played by the fake media and you prove it with every post you make.
Why couldn't they have done it for Trump given that they are now doing it for Biden?
They did it for Trump. How many times do I have to repeat it?
They did it for Biden by publishing his own words (which reveal the context), and they did it for Trump by broadcasting his own words (which reveal the context).
I don't know why you have such a hard time with this.
So every single media outlet and publication, publishes every single President's words that they ever speak?
Separate names with a comma.