Biden says no tax increases for incomes under $400k- It's not true.

I don't see why not.

Regardless, big mouth fools like Buffett and Gates should at the very least step up and pay more voluntarily before they call on others to be forced to do so. Put their money where their mouths are so to speak. But are they doing that? No. They, like Trump, employ a small army's worth of accountants and lawyers to minimize their taxes due. I don't blame them for that, quite the opposite, I applaud them, and am just jealous I can't use the same strategy to reduce mine to $0 or even less than that.

But it does demonstrate their rank hypocrisy on the topic.

 

Any such sunset provision on those across the board cuts needs to be repealed ASAP. Like, NOW, because in the unlikely event Biden and Co take power, you know it'll never happen.

We need to get over this illusion that corps actually pay taxes. They only pay them with money they get from us in the conduct of day to day business, which makes them tax collectors, not taxpayers. It's just another hidden tax on we the people what we have no way of knowing how much is costing us. At least with itemized sales taxes, which is basically the same thing except for the "itemized" part, we can, if we choose to, calculate every penny we pay.

 

OK...and as such, the 18th century constitution is an obsolete, <primacy of the individual above community well being>,
Conservative document. Both principles need to apply in the modern globally connected world economy, with government overseeing an equitable balance between the two principles .

Nonsense. They compete for it

Nonsense again. We all instinctively act in our own self-interest; that is part of the instinctive survival mechanism possessed by all creatures. But of course very different individual capabilities results in very different outcomes for individuals in a competitve economy (hence aka 'dog eat dog world').

The US was the most economically powerful nation for a period after WW2, but a new-comer is making an appearance, much to Trump's chagrin....

Entrenched poverty amidst plenty causes crime because of the demoralisation resulting from poverty.

https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/IJSE-04-2017-0167/full/html

Findings
The outcomes confirm a positive co-integrating relationship between poverty and property crime. It can be argued that poverty ultimately leads to property crime in long run in the USA.

That's right...just like the US hasn't eliminated poverty.

You have partially explained the method required to achieving both growth in living standards AND poverty eradication.

China: "capitalism" with Chinese characteristics ie with central planning to oversee private sector activity, funded by the government's bank, as opposed to blind, competitive "invisible hand" markets - funding any activity so long as it produces a profit, regardless of 'social good' - funded by private banksters.

That's why China has the world's largest high-speed rail network (and the fastest commercial rail journey (from city to airport in Shanghai) , while the US has none..and US infrastructure is deteriorating badly (despite Trump's promises in 2016)

Addressed above.

The private sector, PLUS central planning via intelligent 5-year plans that are invariably achieved by the government.

 

There is not a single private citizen in china who "owns" their own property, even if said ownership is just renting it from a bank for 30 years or so. What they "own" is (usually) a 70-year-lease that grants the right to use that property for the term of the lease, after which true ownership reverts back to the government. Not a bad deal for a 40 year old who just "bought" something, buy the time the cows come home to roost, they'll be dead and gone. But it severely limits their ability to will their properties to their offspring, and as those dates get closer and closer, results in plummeting values. Who in their right mind would pay market price for a property that they only are allowed to keep for a small handful of years?

They're already starting to see this really bad idea start to have issues, as some of those initial leases are starting to approach maturity, but their collective response so far has been to put their heads in the sand and pretend it's not happening.

 

I give you credit.....you spell it all out. You seem to be globalist in nature, and anti American in philosophy. Thanks for the honesty. We disagree.

 

Investments are already global. We're talking about collecting taxes on worldwide income.

What do you mean by "zero sum game?"

The moral right stems from the system being rigged against people who earn money by selling their labor. Right-to-work laws come to mind.

This argument insults our intelligence.

 

Englishmen in the working class were increasingly having their rights - if they ever had any in that class ridden society - denied by the realities of employment in the emerging Industrial Revolution. That reality spawned Karl Marx who was confronted with the injustice of working class children condemned - by reason of class - to work underground in coal mines.

And John Locke, obviously a self-interested Conservative toff, wrote of rights to "Life, Liberty and Property"... even the colonials could not accept the implied class structure in Locke's formulation of Rights.

OK, replace "practically eliminated" with "failed to consider/did not think it necessary to consider, at that time".

History timeline:

The Conservative Locke had HIS conception of Rights, while accommodating the monarchy, which certainly had nothing to do with providing for the common welfare (you are correct so far) - which ought to be an element of the proper function of any government as discussed above, regardless of what colonials, whether loyalists or republicans, thought at the time); the colonials were more exercised in escaping from rule by the British king, while just a few years later the French were pronouncing" Life, Liberty, and Equality" ..see how that last word has changed from "property" to "the pursuit of happiness" to "equality"....in the search for a just government, in just a few years.


....though the preamble DOES say "...in order to promote the general welfare..." but you insist that does not mean the common welfare....

Hmm, I think I exposed the error in your "impossible" hypothesis, given my correction from "eliminated" to "did not consider".

The colonials were indeed escaping from an oppressive government, and as such failed to consider what a just government might look like.

 

Gawd ...and Conservatives claim to be "believers in the possible".....I see, for the individual but not for all the citizens in the nation..

No that's just your Conservative/neoliberal ideology. Modern AI and IT assisted economies can guarantee above poverty participation AND spawn billionaires. But I won't waste time explaining it to you. Instead I'll hand you over to LangleyMan. He seems very confident in his stance re economic orthodoxy....

 

I taught economics and I can assure you @Bluesguy is propagandizing the forum. He misrepresents the size of the Trump tax cuts for lower income groups. Then he advances a laughable arguments about personal income taxes being passed on in the price of goods.

 

Dealt with and disposed of in my post #107

Ditto, see post #107.

Meanwhile China, already a HUGE economy, is growing faster than the US. It remains to be seen whether the US or China will have the civil war.

 

If we improve the incomes of low-wage workers, I can see having them pay taxes.

 

That's your conception of government. It has led to the highest incarceration rate in the world, consequent on entrenched poverty - amidst plenty - resulting in crime. Answer: change the economic system.

Those Chinese did not exactly "choose" ; HK was invaded by the British and Taiwan was a refuge for the losers in a civil war.

Meanwhile: Below poverty, subsistence, agrarian, communist china as it was in 1949 adopted some capitalist practices in the 1980's and has raised more people out of poverty ever since. Soon the mainland will have a higher GDP per capita than Taiwan, and HK's GDP will be tiny in comparison to the mainland's GDP. So China will simply laugh at separatist calls for democracy in HK.

 

And how does the orthodox economist plan to "improve the incomes of low-wage workers", given the Rabid Right's views on 'individualism', 'self-sufficiency', and 'tax is theft' mantra.

That's why I mentioned you have to win elections before you can implement your policies...and I doubt Biden is capable of improving the incomes of low-wage workers even if he wins. Any ideas for him?

 

So, just don't cut rates for higher income groups.

 

I know the history but again, I am just pointing to the choices people will make given the opportunity to do so. The people who live there today and for the last century have chosen to do so and could have chosen to live as mainland Chinese. They are still resisting that last option.

 

Voters will have to give power to people who aren't Paul Ryan/Mitch McConnell types who screw over poor people.

We shall see.

 

The Chinese authorities are currently having a field day showing the violence and mayhem of BLM protests on TV, and the disputes between Fauci and Trump, with 220,000 virus deaths and counting.

The mainlanders might be increasingly thankful they have a one-party meritocracy, rather than a blind-leading-the-blind, squabbling, two party, adversarial 'democracy'.....

In the West, our lives are consumed by hyper-partisan politics, while the Chinese are getting on with getting rich... it's time to get our act together.

 

Actually it is Tramp who is raising taxes on ALL individual tax payers!!! Did you forget that Tramp made the tax cuts for individuals TEMPORARY, they "sunset" in 2025, but his tax cuts for the wealthy, like himself, are permanent.

So all Biden has to do is make Tramp's temporary tax cuts permanent, and Tramp's permanent tax cuts temporary.

 

Why wouldn't they be playing up the BLM, ANTIFA BS, they train and finance much of it. Riots and destruction, now that's communist political discussion at it's finest. Your better world already exists, go live in it and quit 'improving' ours.

 

There is no political ideology that doesn't screw over poor people. Biden has been doing it for nearly half a century.

 

No, but it should be amended - in our modern era where, unlike in the 18th century with free access to vast 'unoccupied' frontier lands, people now have to 'get' money before they can prosper.

No, government should act as employer of last resort (ELR: google it) , and perhaps provide social housing subsidies (as they do in China), depending on housing-costs in a given locality.

 

I expected better. The US's highest incarceration rates in the world were a reality before China could make a car....

Inner city riots and burnings date back to MLK in the 60's and earlier.

China had good relations with the US, until Trump decided China was getting too powerful...

 

I believe the colonials saw a just government as one with as little influence on their personal lives as possible. The authority they recognized was that of local and State government loosely connected by a federal government with no influence over their daily lives.

 

China milked the US like the cash cow it was. We are still their biggest market at the expense of our own industry but that is changing through contracts and tariffs.

The high incarceration rates are due to our laws. Most of those would be incarcerated in any country in the world for the crimes they committed. Where we might differ is those who are jailed for drug laws. Some of those laws are more restrictive than some of the countries around the world.

 

I think you might want to move to China and embrace ALL it has become! Don;t China my America!