Bill Cosby released from prison after conviction vacated

Discussion in 'Law & Justice' started by FreshAir, Jul 1, 2021.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
  2. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    this is why it was overturned

    https://abcnews.go.com/US/bill-cosby-released-prison-conviction-vacated/story?id=78582000

    "In a ruling released Wednesday, the state Supreme Court concluded that Cosby's prosecution should never have occurred due to a deal the comedian cut with former Montgomery County prosecutor Bruce Castor, who agreed not to criminally prosecute Cosby if he gave a deposition in a civil case brought against him by Constand."

    "During that deposition, Cosby made incriminating statements that Castor's successor, Kevin R. Steele, used to charge Cosby in 2015."
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  3. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,379
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Having read a media driven summary of the opinion of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, I can certainly see the due process argument that got him released. The DA's office really defiled his due process right against self incrimination in order to get that criminal conviction. It was sleasy using his statements made in a civil deposition that he was forced to make counter to his fifth amendment protections, once the original DA committed his office to not prosecuting Cosby criminally. He could no longer raise a fifth amendment claim against self incrimination once the threat of a criminal trial was dead and buried, then a new DA resurrected a criminal indictment with evidence provided in the civil deposition, that only exists because the former DA claimed lack of evidence as a reason not to file a criminal indictment prior to the deposition.

    Cosby was forced to provide evidence in another courtroom, that was then used to incriminate him in a trial that simply would not have existed but for that deposition in a civil proceeding contrary to the clear commitment by the former DA, who just wanted the potential victims to get a bite at their civil court 'apple', they could only get, once he threw his criminal 'apple' away. The next DA then picked that old criminal apple right out of the trash barrel and it was much much sweeter and ripe now than it was when it was tossed.

    One has to wonder whether the case was all that unwinnable without that bringing civil deposition testimony in.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
    FreshAir likes this.
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yep, the DA blew it, we know the truth from the depositions, but if the DA gave him immunity, that should have been the end of it, DA's can not do that, that is a huge procedural mistake on the DA's part, even if it was the previous DA that made the promise
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  5. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    it was a written agreement too, surprised it took 3 years to get this thrown out

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/30/cou...ault-conviction-bars-further-prosecution.html

    "A written agreement by the previous Montgomery County prosecutor, Bruce Castor, said that he would not criminally prosecute Cosby in the Constand case. Castor testified that while he was district attorney, he promised not to file criminal charges against the comedian if Cosby would testify in a civil lawsuit that was filed by Constand in 2005."
     
  6. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,379
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    yeah, I am just not sure which DA blew it or if both did. The case really needed to be strong enough that Cosby would likely have been convicted without having incriminating himself in that civil proceeding. I just don't know if they really needed them or not.

    You just can't do breach that legal agreement after he's spent hours testifying in a civil deposition, unable to assert his fifth amendment rights during the questioning because of the existence of that legal agreement.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  7. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    once your given immunity, it doesn't matter what evidence there is, that is final, this case never should of made it to trial
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
    Melb_muser likes this.
  8. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,379
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    You are right. So much depends on what was actually promised in the agreement. Was it total immunity from any prosecution, or immunity from any prosecution based on that deposition and/or any investigatory fruits derived from that deposition.

    In any case, you can't submit the deposition notes at trial, or refer to them, or build a legal theory based on what was learned then.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  9. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I do not feel bad for Cosby, but rules are rules, and if the DA did this, they can't go back on their word, that puts future cases in jeopardy where they need immunity to get people to speak without fear of doing time if they do, I don't get how this could of been allowed to happen, Cosby needs to sue and win big so it never happens again
     
    btthegreat likes this.
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2012
    Messages:
    150,185
    Likes Received:
    62,818
    Trophy Points:
    113
    it would be hard to say one unheard that after hearing it, any case after his deposition would have to be thrown out

    immunity is immunity, regardless how a da words it imo, da's can't trick defendants into speaking, once the word immunity is agreed too, that is the end of it, or at least should be
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  11. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Messages:
    16,379
    Likes Received:
    7,057
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I suspect it was total and complete immunity rather than a more narrow scope because Cosby's legal eagles probably wouldn't settle for anything less! But immunity deals like this are often structured around what is the defendant is likely to say, so as not to exclude an indictment based on new independent evidence, or new witness statements etc that would have likely come to light completely independent and untainted by that deposition testimony.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  12. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,639
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I disagree with the specific reason the court decided for overturning it.
    Maybe they just should have carried out a new trial.


    That being said, I do think there was some legitimate reason for being skeptical about the accusations and his guilt. I covered that in another thread here:
    Multiple women coming forward accusing famous men of rape

    I personally suspect he probably did do it though.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
    CCitizen likes this.
  13. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,517
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It doesn't work that way. Actually given the agreement reached between Cosby's lawyers and the former prosecutor I 'm surprised event the original trial went ahead! Have to see what's in the document of course but it should have related solely to the accusations made by that one 'victim' and the specific dates and locations where the alleged incidents occurred. There is no such thing as a blanket immunity from prosecution (sitting Presidents excepted of course). So that being the case Cosby could still be prosecuted if;

    1) He made admissions to instances involving the litigant in the first case that weren't contained in the original filing or revealed during pre-trial discovery;
    2) He admitted to offenses of the same type as covered by the agreement against other persons while giving evidence;
    3) He admitted to ancillary offenses not covered by the immunity agreement. e.g for instance if the agreement covered offenses relating to the administration of drugs and sexual assault on the victim but Cosby also admitted to regularly purchasing and using cocaine during his evidence then its possible he could be convicted of those offenses.

    Its all down to whats in the document. Feel slightly sorry for the original prosecutor to. Sans owning a crystal ball how was he supposed to know that a future prosecutor would ignore the agreement he sighed. His motive in doing so fin the first place seems to have been fairly legitimate - give the victim some degree of 'closure' given the absence (at the time) of sufficient evidence for a criminal prosecution.
     
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2017
    Messages:
    34,639
    Likes Received:
    11,206
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The latest news is that he's going to be throwing a cocktail party to celebrate.
     
    Melb_muser and joesnagg like this.
  15. joesnagg

    joesnagg Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2020
    Messages:
    4,749
    Likes Received:
    6,799
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Micky Finns for the guests and Viagra for him.
     
  16. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,517
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well it he might bite of more than he could chew if it was the other way round!
     
    joesnagg likes this.

Share This Page