Bishop warns of new Islamic caliphate in Southeast Asia

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by garry17, Mar 25, 2017.

  1. Just_a_Citizen

    Just_a_Citizen Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2016
    Messages:
    9,298
    Likes Received:
    4,133
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    This will seriously damage tourist travel.
     
  2. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Clearly you're clueless about hatred, you want to see hatred go visit a Trump or Pauline Hanson rally
     
  3. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You demonstrate the very quality with this comment alone
     
  4. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    you demonstrate empty head syndrome with your comment
     
  5. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Garry, with respect, I haven't seen you engage in discussion yet. Take on people's views, not the people...
     
    truthvigilante likes this.
  6. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Oh the hurt
     
  7. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I take it you bumped your toe because you wouldn't feel anything if you bumped your head
     
  8. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I did start but the trolls came along and the only person I thought had some understanding turned to the dark side. Oh I laugh about that but truly I predicated the thread so the trolls might actually discuss the situation rather than revert to hate.


    Now I have lost the urge to discuss an issue I find extremely important as the thread is taken from partisan hatred to religious hatred, I now simply point out the bigotry and ignorance since true discussion cannot be had…
     
  9. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The pain, the pain... How disappointing...
     
  10. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    83
    But you are still responding to , and with, the personal stuff. If you want the thread to get back on topic, focus your own contributions only on the topic.
     
  11. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yeah well been here a long time, since most of the posters are known from previous, not much else to do. Those who could rise to the occasion have been chased by those who are incapable.
    I made my contribution (no matter how contentious) in OP, so far little discussion on substance just disparagement for individual points of hatred. Not much else to be said about that ....
     
  12. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Well, it would help to stand up for the injustice in Palestine. This would help break the link between anti-establishment and radical Islam, by associating the establishment with the Muslim side in the most risible West v Islam conflict in the world. (The PLO used to be secular)
    At the same time, vocally promote liberal ideals of sexual equality and freedom of speech at home and openly insist that where-ever Islam conflicts with these principles, Islam takes the back stage.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
  13. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Agree, but I was referring to stereotypes not so much religious practice within itself. E.g. Not all Muslims practice child marriage and quite clearly most Muslims do not promote violence. The condemnation I was referring to is stereotypical finger pointing harassment such as what is clearly demonstrated by Hanson and co.

    Again ISIS are an extreme organisation that has political motivations more so than religious under the surface. They use Islam like the KKK use Christianity. They are evil organisations.
     
  14. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I like the fact you want to discuss this issue and are even prepared to ignore my behaviour…

    BUT, I consider these points to be for the defeat of ISIS, which on appearance is the cause of the situation but not the problem. SO let me discuss this in two parts, one which is irrelevant to the OP and direct relevance to the issue at hand.

    For Hundreds of years the Middle East has been the definition of religious hatred not just for other religions but for their own secular religious zealots.

    Infighting has been the norm and while others want to forget and ignore their hand in creating terrorism and their deliberate attempt to disassociate themselves from the consequences of their ignorance in ignoring the plight of those they created. So along comes 9/11 which those with the shallowest of memories cannot deny is an attack of terrorism against the western nations as though it was the creation of tensions in the Middle East. I generally love how they blame others for their own actions.


    Since the creation of a caliphate is to unite the Islamic religion under one religious leader the caliph who will bring stability and strength to the Islamic nations of the world. NOW while we can agree on what is happening the point that this is no true caliphate as it is not formed in the same religious understanding of acceptance it has been formed in fear and persecution.



    Of course, we could look to other issues such as Palestine and work on solutions to undermine the credibility of ISIS, but the truth is it has no credibility. So all those side issues in the Middle East that seem far too hard to solve will go no way into defeating ISIS as they are simply used to promote the acceptance of ISIS not the truth of it.

    I could go on, but

    Since the intention of the thread is to discuss the probability of returning radicalised foreign fighters who are of one mind that the west must die due entirely of the religious hatred of secular Muslims the issue of defeating ISIS is not the same as stopping radicalised terrorists from establishing and training others to carry their hatred and deadly attacks to all who they do not agree with.

    I don’t know the answer, but it sure isn’t casting insults at those who don’t agree. I know if ISIS was to win in their particular region those radicalised elements who refuse to contort to the will of the Caliph will find themselves the victim of their hatred by execution, once they go home to their own nations the so called caliphate will disown them and suddenly they become the problem of those around them… Serious issue which demands far greater problem then just ISIS…
     
  15. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    No Garry, I think on the whole people don't mind discussing topics with you but you are so easily wound up. Your sullen and churlish on screen persona is a red flag to a bull and then all of a sudden you are dealing with derision.

    Unfortunately you aim to gather your personal team of acolytes but as can be seen your own bigotry destroys any relationship that looks promising. I've been there and done that with you and frankly I find you more entertaining being my nemesis than someone who I can intellectually discuss issues with. You come across as a bit of a Primadonna to be honest lol, and that doesn't sit well in these forums.
     
  16. Latherty

    Latherty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    5,989
    Likes Received:
    489
    Trophy Points:
    83
    True, but the aim is not to defeat ISIS, as ISIS cannot achieve the caliphate with its current strength.

    The aim is to prevent ISIS being able to recruit and grow. To this end the people we need to convince are not those already radicalised, but those susceptible to radicalisation in Western countries, being the second-generation of Muslim immigrants.

    Ah, my point above. (By "secular", I mean non-religious)

    It seems you are coming at it from the view of stopping the radicals from preaching, and I am coming at it from the view of making their preaching less inviting.

    The problem with stopping the radicals from preaching is that it flies in the face of our Western liberal principle of free speech. Such hypocrisy can actually work against us, as it is easy for radicals to draw parallels to our hypocrisies in foreign affairs and connect that to some sort of anti-Muslim government conspiracy.

    The problem with making their preaching less inviting is that its quite a "soft" response and has little evidence of direct impact. It is something of a leap of faith which is incredibly difficult when it feels that an urgent, decisive response is needed. Its the ponce response.
     
    truthvigilante likes this.
  17. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Now Garry, this is a great comment from Latherty. Invariably you look for a reason to disagree and patronise in Primadonna fashion. Query for goodness sake on more occasions than the censorious manner you stalk us with.
     
  18. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Yes, I do understand where you are entering. The issues around such as Palestine is that they are very complicated issues created through inability of people to compromise due in part to religious beliefs but mainly fear and distrust. When somebody can solve the contentious issues around both sides who have far different ideals of influence to find a combined solution they will become the first REAL world peace achiever. As for other problems in the Middle East only made world issues due entirely to the fact the Middle East is the major supplier of energy in the world only rivalled (or beaten) by Russia which is the only reason they are allowed to continue to sell life so cheaply..

    Stopping them preaching and stop them from killing and so on. Look on these pages, many preach without the knowledge or understanding of what they say. Look on this forum and you will see that it is actually very easy to discredit preachers when they preach their hatred and venom of truth as they see it, not as the reality.

    BUT when you have war hardened radicals returning to your nation with one singular belief of hatred for everything you stand for, then you’re not talking about preaching your talking about defending.

    Just to cross the threads a little, as I pointed out in the thread about 18c, the hypocrisy of those who are prepared to breach the law they so vehemently defend stands as illustration of the truth and credibility of the discussion itself. We notice the laws when they do not go the way we want them too.

    Interesting to ponder and come back with more in-depth I feel.
     
  19. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Yes, yes yes yes yes. What do we need to do to circumvent the radicalisation message taking root.

    I still think we need to separate Islam from ISIS. ISIS are just a murderous bunch of political opportunists. If we can do this as a people it will go along way to reducing potential radicalisation. At the moment we are promoting ISIS as Islamic terrorists. No, they are just murderous animals and Muslims are followers of Islam. Again, it is the filthy media who get the wristflappers going!
     
  20. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Again TROLLING, thought you would have walked away after demonstrating your bigotry...
     
  21. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I'm sorry, you did well. Sort of! ; )
     
  22. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I am not trying to hide my hate like you. Simply put, your last post demonstrates the exact opposite of what you are trying to pretend, And I am not stupid enough to try and suggest ISIS is simply a political orginisation.
     
  23. truthvigilante

    truthvigilante Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 30, 2012
    Messages:
    4,159
    Likes Received:
    289
    Trophy Points:
    83
    What are they?
     
  24. garry17

    garry17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Messages:
    4,126
    Likes Received:
    176
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I think one of the issues with the hate speech is the lack of comprehension of what it is. First thing you have to realise about radicalisation is, that those who preaching the hate are not the drivers of radicalisation but simply the people who focus and shape the hate or they give them a cause. Everybody is already radicalised in one way or another. All young people grow and at one time or another rebel, becoming a rebel without a cause. The establishment, authority government or just their parents, venerable and open to persuasion. Weak minded individuals who see and like the glory and glamor of jihad become those radicals while those of stronger character see and realise the truth of such hatred.


    This problem is unequivocally the problem of family and upbringing. Not of household religion or identity of ancestry but of failure to teach and impress decent beliefs and understandings. Failure of teaching to think for oneself but a reliance on being told what to think and a failure of just listening to entire generations.


    However, the issue of preaching radicalism is an issue and frankly, interpreting what hate speech actually is, not just what speech we don’t like.


    More thought is needed here but let me say, that this is like racism, to those who pretend they are tolerant to all do not understand racism actually goes both ways. That is how one can pick the pretenders from the crowd. As I continue to point out, on this forum so many demonstrate the very points of pretender. Clearly, the problem of radicalisation is the receptiveness of the people radicalised, not the message they receive.
     
  25. m2catter

    m2catter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2011
    Messages:
    3,084
    Likes Received:
    654
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Mate,
    you don't get it, do you?
    You are standing in your own way, why????????????????
    Let others have their opinion, and if you agree fine, and if you don't then try to argue.
    But please don't talk those down, who don't share your views...
    I wished you become a bit more tolerant and open.
    We all spend our time here to exchange ourselves and hopefully enjoying it,
    best regards
    By the way, no hard feelings - I know I sometimes can be short fused as well.....
     

Share This Page