Black Folks---Listen up

Discussion in 'Race Relations' started by Moriah, Jun 19, 2020.

  1. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Pop quiz: What do we call someone who calls an entire ethnic community violent criminals?
     
  2. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Not everyone runs toward crime, many just want to live normal lives. However that does not excuse the % that commit WAY more crime than their numbers would suggest. What is obvious is people who make excuses for the poor behavior of others.
     
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  3. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    What do we call someone making the strawman fallacy?
     
  4. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    we can have an electoral college that provides affirmative action for the smaller States, but just realize, people like Trump were picked by that, not the majority of voters - which makes Trump an affirmative action hire
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
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  5. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Who is making excuses for poor behavior? Is blaming crime on culture making excuses? Is blaming crime on poverty making excuses? I am pointing out blaming crime on a culture is wrong and racist.
    76% of the nation's population should cease creating 98% of the racist militias.
    Would you think that statement is racist against whites?. I do.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2020
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  6. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    You are making excuses for criminal behavior. You and others are blaming the police instead of the persons committing the crimes. I don't care what you think is right or wrong, the statistics do not lie. All you want to do is blame others for the behaviors of the few. Race baiting is playing the victim card, that's not a good look.
     
  7. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    You seem to have nothing. No one is blaming the police for crime or making excuses for criminal behavior. The police can be blamed for unprofessional behavior and violent over reaction. The only one doing the race baiting is you, saying black crime is due to their culture (race).
     
  8. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    The police rarely commit unprofessional behavior. But the 13% of society are the ones causing these problems, and this has nothing to do with how they're handled because it's the same as other races. So there is clearly a problem with this culture when 30+% of males are felons and they're the most in danger due to other black males.
     
  9. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    "It is merely the end result." Sorry, but the "stat game" played by those who just love to paint black folk as inherently violent always leaves out one important detail. RAW NUMBERS. All one has to do is go to the DOJ or FBI or whatever website they gleamed their stats from and do the following:

    1. Find the actual raw numbers of the crime category that the percentages are based on.
    2. Then go to the Census Bureau site and find the most recent count (raw numbers) of black folk in America (it can be broken into male, female, age ranges). Last time I checked, I believe it was a little over 33 million.
    3. Compare the actual number of crimes attributed to black folk to the black population.

    What you come out with is that LESS THAN 1% OF THE BLACK POPULATION ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR LESS THAN 10,000 OF THE CRIME CATEGORY.

    Now mind you, the numbers game doesn't do a damned bit of good for the victims or their surviving family members. But what it does establish is that black folk are not rampaging through the country killing willy nilly as some would have us believe.

    Oh, and spare us all the supposition and conjecture about resisting arrest and such......a simple honest search on youtube will show you how across the country non-black suspects and perpetrators are treated WAY differently (i.e., non-lethal). That's the core of what the BLM movement is all about. If you like, I can give you one or two example .
     
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  10. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    "13% of society are the ones causing these problems" No, a small proportion of the black community are "causing problems" not the entire black community. Only someone with an issue with an entire race would think that.
    Their issue is how their race is not handled the same as other races. Your denial of that goes in the face of reality.
    Around 30% of black males are felons is a terrible statistic and misleading. It is an accumulated number over 50 or 60 years. Someone busted for pot in the 70's is on the list. Certain white people like to bandy it about. The thing is crime is at a 30 year low. Our crime rate is lower then Ireland's. Is there something wrong with their culture?
    What is different than Ireland is the gun play. We have 5% of the worlds population and 42% of the guns and every wanna be gangster has one. That's the problem.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
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  11. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    You can spend all day projecting what you want people to think, and I can spend that much time laughing at what you're doing.

    Here comes the fun part, you're deliberately skewing statistics. I'll leave this here to remind you that homework is important.https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

    Yeah, read the table and explain why the numbers are insanely disproportionate.
     
  12. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    What did I "skew" and you contradicted nothing I wrote.
     
  13. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    You said "Around 30% of black males are felons is a terrible statistic and misleading. It is an accumulated number over 50 or 60 years. Someone busted for pot in the 70's is on the list." So I gave you the actual stats proving you are incorrect. Don't even get me started on how legal gun ownership is a problem. It isn't.

    So what we can now see is no matter what your race is, following the law and obeying lawful orders keeps everyone safe.
     
  14. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    I showed how the 30% is misleading. It is effective in continuing the mistrust and fear in certain white people who already have a bias.
    I said nothing about legal gun ownership being a problem. One false assumption after another. And I never denied crime stats for blacks weren't bad. What I did say you can't blame the entire race for that which you have repeatedly.
    Racism definition is - a belief that race is a fundamental determinant of human traits and capacities.
     
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  15. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    All minorities are blamed for something.

    All bigotry is justified to the bigot.

    In USSR 1968-1986, all Jews were discriminated because some Jews were guilty of treason.

    Discrimination of Jews in USSR was much milder then discrimination of African Americans in USA. Generally, USA has one of the worst Human Rights records.
     
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  16. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    All use of the broad brush fallacy is hilarious. Comparing the Jews in Russia to aa in America is trollish.
     
  17. fishinD

    fishinD Well-Known Member

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    First, I never suggested anywhere that all of the 13% of the population was out killing willy nilly, as you seemed to have interpreted. I was merely responding to your post about percentage of blacks killed compared to their population percentage. I followed that up with percentage of blacks committing crime, compared to their population. I would certainly agree that with any race, it is always a small segment of their population that commits crime, so your went through a lot of mental gymnastics to make a point that I already understood, and really does not diminish any point of my argument. But the numbers do suggest that as of current times, the amount of blacks committing crimes is out of proportion with their population percentage. All that means, is that if you are going to use population percentage to compare to police killings, then you must also be able to use that value when comparing to crime statistics, without being considered a racist. I never dove any deeper to give my thoughts on why the black crime percentage is out of whack, but I will tell you this, I do not believe it is because of their race.

    So, you have a group that has a higher number of police interactions than their population percentage would suggest. This would then mean more potential for things to go wrong. So with about 10-13 police killings of unarmed blacks per year, which is usually about half that of whites, out of about 10 millions arrests, I get sick and tired of hearing that police are out making target practice with blacks. That is complete and utter BS.
     
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  18. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    I left USSR at age 12.5.

    There was anti-Semitism, but discrimination against African Americans in USA is worse.
     
  19. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    Maybe if you'd been here you would realize it's not.
     
  20. kungfuliberal

    kungfuliberal Well-Known Member

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    Actually, YOU did a lot of "mental gymnastics" to essentially reiterate a flawed analogy AND a tired, exaggerated and incorrect mantra.

    1. No matter how you dance, you can't carry on about "out of proportion" crimes in the black community when you look at the RAW numbers of crimes and the population....which obviously you refuse to do....the "percentages" take on a whole new slant. Bottom line; ANYTHING black people do will be "out of proportion" when you have generational confinement in finite geographic areas. ANYTHING black people do in the national forum in large numbers can be quantified as "out of proportion" ... the military, police force, medical field, etc. And since we are a "minority", any large portions of group activity seems more significant. This does not excuse the crimes....case in point, if you go by stats, there is a disturbing large percentage of sexual crimes among whites that is by percentage larger than blacks. Now, one can "excuse" such as NOT an indication of racial identification due to actual size population, but by your viewpoint it can't be ignored. By rational logic, it's just a crime stat to be noticed and acted upon by law enforcement.

    2. Black folk have been complaining for a generation or two of police brutality and congenital racism/bigotry in our justice system. "Target practice" may have been heard as an exaggeration by SOME frustrated folk or used as comparison, but historically it has NOT been the mantra of organizations such as the NAACP, CORE, BLM, etc. The historical and factual evidence of black folk dying, being incarcerated long term unnecessarily for crimes and offenses that white folk don't suffer does exists...period. The Civil Rights Amendments are a testament to that. You're "sick and tired" of hearing something that offends your mental comfort zone....black folk are sick & tired of hearing BS similar to what you post while we're being unjustly killed and jailed. Guess which one outweighs the other?
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2020
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  21. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    What people are sick and tired of is people making excuses for bad behavior. People are tired of some people playing the victim card while pretending they aren't responsible for their own actions. If they'd stop acting like this, things will improve. All the handouts and free stuff can't make people act right.
     
  22. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Fun with numbers!
    (I am not a great mathematician, so it will not hurt my feelings to be corrected)

    We have some on here that believe crime is race based, while I believe it is based on economics.
    There are around 330,000,000 Americans. 76% are white or 250m and 13% are black or 42m.
    Now given both white and black middle class and up are equally law abiding, so we have no need to include them in which race accounts for the most crime proportionally.

    What I am saying most crime is committed by those in or near poverty. The number of people "near" poverty is a soft number. Those "in" poverty is easier to define and a harder number but those "near" poverty should be proportionally the same black or white.

    9% of whites live in poverty or 22.6m and 22% of blacks live in poverty or 9.4m.

    Per FBI '17 stats there were 8.1m arrests of which whites had 5.6m arrests and blacks 2.2m.

    The proportion of arrests by population: whites 2.5:1 and blacks 2.4:1

    Almost the same proportion of arrests if you take economics into account, but blacks do cause slightly more crime. That can be explained by the black concentration of poverty in urban setting and many whites in poverty live in rural areas.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2020
  23. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    SO, what you're saying is that if you don't earn much money it's not your fault when you commit crimes? Trying to tie this into poverty won't sell. I would not excuse ANY race or group and no one else should either.

    Sorry, just because you don't have money today doesn't mean you cannot earn it tomorrow, especially since there are LOADS of special give-outs and treatment given to blacks.

    http://www.cc.com/video-clips/lo6e8w/chappelle-s-show-ask-a-black-dude---walking---uncensored

    "The black man in America is the most copied man on this planet."
    Paul Mooney
     
  24. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Again, no proof I'm wrong or counter argument. Simple denial doesn't work. And again, false assumptions. No one says criminals are without fault. If they do the crime they need to do the time. No race is excused.

    I demonstrated that both races who live in or near poverty roughly commit the same amount of crime; therefore it is not race based as right-wingers like to insist.
    In other words, your race based narrative of the cause of black crime is wrong.
     
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  25. Robert

    Robert Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe more blacks die in the protests than are killed by the Cops.
    So

    If you did not protest, you would still be alive.

    Thank you Trevor Noah.
     

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