Bleep-sit

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by LafayetteBis, Mar 29, 2019.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    From the Guardian - Parliament may look chaotic. But it is inching towards a resolution

    Excerpt:
    It's not "all over" yet. The idiot Conservative Party has consigned the country to a second-rate partnership with its larger mutual-trader, the EU. How any people can be so dumb is beyond comprehension.

    How many car manufacturers need to quit Britain and set-up operations in other parts of Europe - who are hungry to receive them - before the Brits understand fully understand how they have set foot into some deep, deep shat?

    Those companies are never coming back ... !

    PS: I am a yank who has lived/worked in Britain and in both my business dealings and friendships I have found them to be a highly sensible people. But what they have done with Brexit is beyond comprehension and a real shame.
     
  2. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    A customs union would make sense.
    But how to do that with the limited, till the EU election, in which the UK should not participate.
    They would have to get rid of May and her government, too.
     
  3. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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  4. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Customs are harsh on American products and any customs union with the EU will block any service access to Wall Street from The City which UK probably would want in any US UK trade deal that depends on UK being free of the EU.
    Nothing stopping the EU from being the EU, but their only solution is to act like a bloc and annex Northern Ireland to honour The Good Friday Agreement between UK and Ireland which for the local population of Northern Ireland; has been the red line that has defeated the UK PM's deal with the EU time and time again.
    The PM depends on their votes and, they're a loyalist faction and hold the keys.

    If the EU would drop the Northern Irish backstop and allow Northern Ireland to leave without a customs union and with the rest of the UK, but the EU won't change the deal that this DUP (DUP, the Northern Irish political party in cahoots with the PM shooting down the deal) don't want.

    In this withdrawal agreement, the EU get Northern Ireland.
    What an idiot the PM is to think this bad deal is better than no deal?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2019
  5. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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  6. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It all started when that jerk of a PM decided he wanted the publicity from a public referendum about leaving the EU. He foolishly thought that just because he lived in London, which wholeheartedly voted AGAINST Brexit, that the rest of the country would do the same?

    After losing the referendum, never heard from him again - have we?

    What I find absolutely amazing about educated countries (like the US and most of Europe) is how they can elect such dunderheads ... ! (This latest crop of leaders - with Italy being the most egregious example - are disgusting simpletons.)

    Does the UK need another war to find a Winston Churchill?


    My Point: Let's all understand the fundamental lesson of the Great Recession. It was that the world was changing, and changing profoundly, from the Industrial to the Information Age. Which required a much higher level of generalized human competence that only a post-secondary education could allow any nation. And that education had to be universal in nature and therefore very, very low-cost!
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  7. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The strong leader is what people look for when the system, usually the economic system is not working. That is why Trump was elected. That is what usually results in fascism.

    The Tory party is in its own fight about whether it is going now to move to the far right..the section which the Brexit vote and drama is all about. Apparently the non far right Tories are going to make sure May does not call an election. Of course if she did the Tories would put in policies which would be appealing to the far right. Corbyn could still win - except that the Blairites in the Labour Party would prefer an extreme right fascist Tory Party than a Labour win by a genuine social democrat Leader like Corbyn.

    Paths from the past: historians make sense of Brexit and our current political turmoil

    It is time for people to acknowledge that neo liberalism does not work.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  8. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    The EU have asked UK to pay £39bn and to keep Northern Ireland in the customs union.
    We can afford the money, that's not an issue, but remaining in the EU is an issue.

    It seems paying £0.00 and getting out not being tied into the EU so Brexit won't be in name only, will enable the UK to enter into other deals.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  9. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Cameron lived in Yorkshire and has Jeremy Clarkson as a neighbour, but so what, isn't London valid enough for you?
    What's wrong with London?

    London can play the victim when all of a sudden its power and wealth make it easy to blame London.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  10. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Let's focus on America Vs. Europe.


    It seems Europe can't ban the burqa quicker; French women who speak up agianst rape in their #Metoo get attacked and it's speculated by some people in France that women like being raped!?
    Meanwhile, Germany can't survive without poorer economies of the Eastern Bloc and have bought into this whole bloc mentality, and as for Ireland, is all too quick to be a part of this bloc, because they're weak and the bloc appeals to the weak because they know no one would listen to them on their own.

    Vs.

    Freedom of speech, and democracy.

    If Europe wasn't so backwards, maybe it wouldn't matter, but they are, and it does.

    The UK doesn't want to be in the bloc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  11. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    It dawns on me, what good's being a part of the EU if you get a bigger voice and a say in the EU when the EU doesn't listen? Ireland, Greece and now even the UK.
    Parliament and the EU can't have a backstop it seems, so, no deal it seems it has to be.

    A voice in what? Their dictatorship? Their 'let's ask them to vote again'.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  12. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    We get a bigger voice, but it's not our voice, it's America competing bureaucrats speaking for us never won by public vote. Hostile towards American import and lazy in NATO.

    No thank you.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  13. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Soft Brexit's a Brexit in name. It denies bilateral trading and ties to the UK to the EU.

    What kind of divorce allows your spouse you're divorcing to tie you to them?

    Theresa May's deal is bad.
    Staying in the EU means revolt and being tied down to Europe.
    The only ways out are getting out without a deal, not paying a penny or more importantly, not committing to the EU when the US for one is ready and waiting.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  14. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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  15. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    I remember the idiots last press conference in front of #10, the utmost show of arrogance.

    It is amazing how education and knowledge have become an outcast in politics.
    We see it in the US, especially.

    I think the UK needs a harsh lesson to find some leadership and it looks it will get that lesson, sadly.

    The information age has a lot of people very scared, they want to turn the time back and isolate themselves.
    Globalism is the new devil, while they live and use the devil every minute without thinking about it.
     
  16. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    No, The Idiot in Chief was elected because the other candidate was so unbelievable bad and ran the worst campaign ever. The margin was 80.000 votes in the rust belt, winner takes all, states.
    The deplorable.
     
  17. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Because Trump doesn't want a US EU trade deal doesn't mean he's an idiot, it means he's smart.
     
  18. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Neither Liberalism nor Socialism carried the right answers. Both posit solutions that respond to particular ideological preferences. Communists wanted all the wealth to belong to all the people. The western world's capitalism wants wealth to be the supposed well-deserved reward for having the geniosity to manipulate the economic system.

    Both opposite objectives are inanities, and the real truth is somewhere in between!

    The "right answers" depend upon the questions, and those depend upon the country and who is asking the question. There is no such animal as a political philosophy that is "universally applicable" because of the great diversity of mankind and the various ways lives are lived on a planet that itself is immensely diverse in population and geography.

    Methinks ...
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
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  19. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    well that certainly did not help...but I think he would have been unlikely to have been voted in at an earlier time even if he faced her...and of course she got the most votes. I do though accept the US did not get much of a choice. I read the dems deliberately did that thinking Hilary would win. Now if the Dem's had just let Sanders stand...….
     
  20. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    See the BLS Employment-to-population Ratio (here) and look closely at the period in question - that is, from the Great Recession to 2019.

    Note that the US had from January 2010 to November 2013 a stagnant ratio because No New Jobs were being created - because the Replicants refused any further stimulus-spending out of the HofR! So, the E-to-p ration remained stagnant at around 58%!

    Note also that as of early 2014 (during Obama's administration) finally Americans got tired of the Great Recession and started spending again. What happened to the E-to-p Ratio that year?

    It took off, and when Donald Dork was wrongly elected in 2016, the E-to-p Ratio was already back up to 60% and still climbing!

    He had worked no economic miracle - not then and not since. The American people just got back to spending*.

    *This was unique because after the Great Depression it took WW2 to perform the same trick!
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I hasten to add that Donald Dork did not win the popular-vote election. He lost it by an amazing 2%, and Hillary's was one of the best scores historically of any Real Winner of the popular-vote.

    Which means what? That our Electoral College was and still is a voting mechanism the purpose of which was/is to manipulate the popular-vote. It's rule is that the candidate that wins the Majority Vote in the state obtains ALL THE OF ELECTORAL VOTE! Which destroys the essence of the popular-vote. (No other developed nation on earth employs such a warped mechanism!)

    The 12 Amendment can be rescinded, but it would take a majority of state-votes to do so. The correction necessary would be a law stipulating simply that states be obliged to report to Congress ONLY THE RESULTS OF THE POPULAR-VOTE !
     
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  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Both opposite objectives are inanities, and the real truth is somewhere in between!

    The "right answers" depend upon the questions, and those depend upon the country and who is asking the question. There is no such animal as a political philosophy that is "universally applicable" because of the great diversity of mankind and the various ways lives are lived on a planet that itself is immensely diverse in population and geography.

    Methinks ...[/QUOTE]

    Although I will give you that it is for each country to find it's own way, I believe you are talking a stereotype. communism or any other version which has yet been tried. It would need to fit the era and the needs of now - for instance the desperate needs of the environment. Another immediate and strong reason to get rid of neo liberalism tout de suite. We owe our children and grandchildren to give them the world we are renting in workable order!

    Democracy will only work with a form of socialism. It certainly does not need to be communism and to be frank other forms of capitalism only work with democracy if it is done in a social democratic manner. So the first question is, do you want Democracy. If you do, it will of necessity have to have a social dimension. The Chinese call what the US have 'Capitalist Democracy' because they quite accurately notice that the person who gets voted in is the person who has the most money spent of them and that money is spent so that those spending it will get results. They vote but really it is something of a spin. The US like the UK like France is a Plutocracy - that is our governments serve the richest few. It is a super corrupt system. This was very similar to how economics were before WW2 and why it was seen then that it was necessary to change the economic structure and was the reason why during my childhood if an adult heard the word 'Monopoly' they went crazy. Thatcher and Regan changed that and now we are back in the same mess as prior to WW2. As things are Political theorists are starting to talk about us moving back to Feudalism. Of course with the discontent this causes Corporations will look for people to Govern in a fascist way keeping those with opposing ideas quiet. A form of social democracy is without question the best way forwards. Obviously the form will require work.
     
  23. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I quite agree, which is why I live permanently in Europe.

    Where it's form of socialism is this one called: "Social Democracy" - defined as:
    Which is interpreted to mean, at least in Europe, that both healthcare and a tertiary-level education are available at reasonable costs for all citizens. Which means further that the costs of access are controlled directly by government authorities.

    Otherwise, one has a American-style healthcare system where private enterprise decides the prices and access to services is very difficult. I also believe this is the singular reason why lifespans are four years shorter in America than in Europe ...
     
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  24. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Social Democracy does not work without a social market economy.
    Ludwig Erhard saw that and became the father of the social market economy.
    He had naturally a very solid Health Insurance System, The Bismarck System ( oldest health insurance system in the world) and a free education system, again one of the oldest in the modern world, to help.
     
  25. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    The popular vote as you know, is a hollow victory, not worth a dam.

    She lost because she did not work the rust belt.

    The Dems on top forgot to address the most important subjects of the middle class, like a repair package for ACA, middle class tax burden and education cost.
    It was a very crappy campaign they ran.
     

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