both solutions are awful

Discussion in 'Women's Rights' started by Hastings, Jan 4, 2012.

  1. Hastings

    Hastings New Member

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    You sometimes hear about men being wrongfully convicted of rape. You'll commonly hear from certain groups that the system favors women too strongly. They say that the system takes a women's word over a man when no evidence is available.
    Conversly opposed groups will say that women who are raped are often ignored by authorities due to authorities disbelief and when they do go to trial its too difficult to convict the accused due to rape often being difficult to prove.
    I don't doubt that the system has some serious flaws. Unfortunatly I can't seem to find one piece of work that doesn't seem severly biased... Either the system favors women, with judges thoughtlessly locking men up. Or The system favors men with said women sometimes not even getting authorities to bring the case to court in the first place.
    The first groups solutions generally involve bringing more accountability to women, such as being able to press charges against them for lying to the police and wasting police resources & court time. (Although I'm pretty sure its actually the police who press charges in those cases not the accused.)
    The other groups solution generally aim to make convictions easier. This isn't intended to be a subversion of justice, it's just a hard crime to prove. One change brought about was to conceal the womens identity making it easier for victims to come forward.(Actually getting women to come forward in the first place makes convictions much easier needless to say...)

    The problem however... Is that I hate both groups solutions.

    On one hand bringing more accountability to women if they lie about being raped would be great but, just because a man was found not guilty doesn't mean he was innocent. It seems like any actual rapist would try to bring his victim to court for trying to throw him in jail. Not only that but the very idea that that could happen might cause victims to remain silent. (Especially the few male ones that actually come forward since they would certainly get the shaft.) But as I said earlier I'm pretty sure police handle those charges, which causes a new problem... they might choose to not press charges when they obviously should.
    The other idea hopes to make it easier to successfully convict rapists. This has unwanted effects in certain ways. For example a womens identity and particularly her past can't be disclosed. While this makes women more likely to come forward it has the effect of soley stigmatizing the male, which may not seem bad if he's actually guilty. but if he's not than he is pretty much screwed in terms of his reputation(as a not guilty verdict will hardly convince everyone) but the liar gets to walk away scott free. Also a women can't have charges pressed against her for lying meaning there is Literally zero accountability. This brings up issues involving wether or not the woman made a honest mistake or not, if it was merely a genuine case of mistaken identity she shouldn't be put in jail, on the other hand if she was straight up lying I would have no problem throwing her prison.

    Sadly I'm not sure what we should do. any attempt to make convictions easier will likely screw any innocent man. And any attempt to protect the innocent mans right will empower actual rapists. I hate all of the above options but I have not seen any better ideas.
    So for the love of all thats holy please discuss something better than what most feminists and mens rights group give me.
     
  2. Doctor

    Doctor New Member

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    What's wrong with the current system again? Errors aside, as they are after all, errors.
     
  3. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Perhaps a man that is thinking about having sex with a woman should have her sign a paper, in front of a notary, stating that she agrees to it. This is what some high profile athletes do to avoid the risk of being sued.


    Remember that a defendant should never be convicted of a crime based only on the testimony of one witness.

    There is yet a third solution to rape, which you would no doubt also find "awful": racial segregation. I strongly encourage you to read the racial statistics about who the perpatrators and victims actually are. You might be surprised. Depending on your race and the area in which you live, racial segregation could reduce your chances of being raped by half or more. If racial segregation seems to impractical, another similar strategy would be to stop immigration of African and Middle Easterners to your country, since these are the ethnicities that have by far the highest statistical rape rates. As unbelievable as this might seem, most of the rapes in France, for example, are comitted by muslims.

    But if all three of these solutions are unacceptable to you, I suppose you will just have to accept the possibility of being brutally raped, and take the appropriate precautions accordingly– just like the women have to do in Pakistan.
    (do not go out alone and do not go out at night)

    Anyone who wants to seriously discuss the problem of rape, but refuses to consider race is deluding themselves. I wholeheartedly want to help stop the rising number of brutal rapes against women both in my country and in yours. But I cannot help you if idealistic women continue to prevent corrective action on the root of the problem. Think about it and make a decision about what is most important.
     
  4. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    I can honestly say I've never heard anything of the kind, except for certain groups who claim the courts favour women too strongly and take their word over the word of the man in cases of rape.

    That is not true. These groups are not worth listening to. They generally consist of losers and women haters and are best ignored.
     
  5. Panzerkampfwagen

    Panzerkampfwagen New Member

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    The system should favour the accused.
     
  6. Traditionalist

    Traditionalist New Member

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    ...or men and women both can practice self restraint and stop dropping their draws as soon as they meet each other. How's that for personal responsibility, and self respect?

    Some of these people who have one noght stands don't even know the other's middle name, let alone last name. I know I know...it sounds too simple....
     
  7. Jarlaxle

    Jarlaxle Banned

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    Every time I think I have seen the STUPIDEST POSSIBLE STATEMENT on this site...someone squeezes out a turd like this. Ye gods.
     
  8. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    In my region, the rape rates used to be very low, almost non-existent.
    But there have been a dramatic increase in the number of rapes. Rapes have more than doubled within the last 20 years. Although only around 25 percent of the population are ethnic minorities, 70 percent of the rape perpatrators are ethnic minorities. The statistics get even worse, because almost all these rapes are committed by muslims (no specific statistics are kept), so most of the rapes are coming from a group that makes up only 15 percent of the population! One study showed that muslims were 14 times more likely to commit rape (more conservative studies say 7 times). And most of these rapes were against non-muslim girls. As the muslim population is only 15 percent now, there is plenty of room for the rate of rapes to increase.

    Are women's rights activists turning a blind eye toward rapes just because most of them are coming from ethnic minorities?

    One in ten Norwegian women (over the age of 15) in the Norwegian capital of Oslo has been raped!
    http://theforeigner.no/pages/news-in-brief/oslo-rape-increase-outrages-politicians/

    Rapes are become so prevalent in the once peaceful city that hotels are resorting to issuing hotel guests key-chain alarms in the event they are attacked outside after hours.
    http://conservativepapers.com/news/2011/11/10/oslo-rape-wave-so-bad-hotels-pass-out-keychain-alarms/

    Unni Wikan, a professor of social anthropology at the University of Oslo, in 2001 said that “Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for these rapes” because Muslim men found their manner of dress provocative. The professor’s conclusion was not that Muslim men living in the West needed to adjust to Western norms, but the exact opposite: “Norwegian women must realize that we live in a Multicultural society and adapt themselves to it.”

    So European women must now take the same extreme precautions that women in Pakistan have long had to put up with? Thick black clothes to hide the countours of the body, headscarfs to conceal the head. No going out after dark alone. One women who was with her boyfriend was attacked by a gang, and she was still raped. It is impractical not to go out after dark because days are very short in the winter time. We only have about six hours of daylight.

    Crime statistics for the city of Oslo:
    https://www.politi.no/vedlegg/lokale_vedlegg/oslo/Vedlegg_1309.pdf
    if you look at the section "Gjerningsmannens alder etter landbakgrunn" (Perpetrator age by country of origin) on page 50, there is a graph which shows age distribution of suspected or accused rapists. For 16-19 year-old rapists, 15 of them were not ethnically Norwegian and only 1 of them was ethnically norwegian. For 20-29 year olds, 46 of them were non-norwegian while 17 of them were norwegian. For 30-39 year-old rapists, most of them were still non-norwegian. When you get older than that, the number of rapes falls dramatically, because the muslim asylum seekers did not begin coming and having many children until about the 1980's.

    About 28 percent of Oslo's population is composed of non-norwegians. This figure includes Polish migrant workers, but none of the Poles are raping Norwegian girls.
     
  9. spt5

    spt5 New Member

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    This Unni Wikan teaches for free at a free university, I REALLY hope, because nobody should pay him for anything, until Norwegian MEN will stop getting killed for taking out muslim women for party time. Multiculturalism begins when women are quickly forming relationships from both sides across the cultural divide, and the women keep 50 % of the controls over these relationships.

    What Norwegian law should concentrate on is not rape, but the domestic status of muslim girls. I think the law should enter and control muslim bedrooms, BUT stop short at interfering with ethnic language and ethnic art.

    As for prosecuting rape, it should be VERY simple, such as it is in schools, if a teacher or boss sees a bruise on a woman, they have a criminal responsibility to report it to the police, or they get charged for conspiracy. The only thing that can ever prove rape is bruises, anyways.

    I am not a muslim, and have never been in the middle east, but I know that muslim countries protect women who are raped by charging them with the crime of being disobedient at home and put them into prison, where they are safely protected from the outside world and get their support groups from their peers.
     
  10. PoliticalRuckus

    PoliticalRuckus New Member

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    "Accept being brutally raped". You have got to be kidding me. That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. Your facts are wrong. Most rapes occur WITHIN the same race.

    Stop using rape -- a truly horrific scenario -- as a reason to promote racial segregation.
     
  11. PatrickT

    PatrickT Well-Known Member

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    Right. Call people names and ignore them. Way to go. Sexist much. As the famous bumper sticker said concerning Anita Hill, "Women don't lie". Golly, no, never. So, anyone who is saying a woman is lying is a loser and a woman hater and should be ignored. So say the sexists.
     
  12. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

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    People who claim the courts favour women too strongly and take their word over the man's are losers and women haters.

    Maybe you should have read my post properly.
     

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