Discussion in 'Current Events' started by MrTLegal, Nov 4, 2019.
That doesn't make nutcase nancy any less crazy. But I appreciate your honesty- now we know!
1. What I heard was that he altered his previous testimony to be more in agreement with the ongoing testimonies of all the other foreign service & State Dept personnel, who all said Trump was making Ukraine investigations on the Bidens a requirement before Trump would release the military aid approved by Congress.
2. No. If only Trump is removed we'll be stuck with Pence, who I am almost as uncomfortable with as Trump, only Pence would be less destructive to the Constitution.
3. I have exactly the same dilemma, only to me, the ones subverting our system of government are the President & his closest henchmen, who either turn the department from serving the Constitution to serving the President personally, or they circumvent the department altogether & conduct government business on their own by themselves. The Dept of Justice exemplifies the first, while the State Dept suffers the latter.
4. No, not me. But Trump does, & he's the one he thinks should be in charge of that Politburo.
5. Yes, Trump was elected, & most Democrats, including me, accept that dreary fact. But Trump has proven himself inept, mercurial, undependable, dishonest, petty, vengeful, & a poor leader in every way imaginable. I've always thought America deserves better. I still do.
6. The Socialist policies I support are ones that would help most Americans, & NOT deprive them of any of their rights. I am sorry, but I feel your attitude was formed under different circumstances--perhaps during the Cold War, when Communism pretended to be Socialism, & American propaganda utilized that lie for its own benefit. The truth is quite different, as many European socialist countries now illustrate.
Needless to say, I disagree with your post, utterly & completely.
No surprise.. Most people invested in this current campaign are addicted to the drama and the void it fills in their lives! So to give it up would leave them dick in hand and difficult hole to fill!
"I hear TINGS" is the democratic law that binds society..
The quid quo pro is not necessary. The crime was committed by the President simply demanding the Ukraine investigation of the Bidens for personal political gain. And, that he has already admitted doing in public statements. So, he's guilty.
*******n. You responded to multiple paragraphs with at tripe.
1. What caused Obama to make that statement? Did you study what came from the Republicans immediately BEFORE that statement? I think you're missing some details that are important.
2. I agree that a disagreement with policy is not ground for impeachment. But inviting (or demanding) foreign interference in American domestic elections IS.
3. Peace has always been in our national interest. Trump doesn't have the brainpower to connect the dots & see the value of almost a century of European peace. He's so concentrated on money & finances, he's incapable of seeing the more important decades of peace or the truth that all the money spent on that peace is trivial to what one single war there would cost.
4. Trump wasn't asking for Ukraine to clarify Russian interference with our 2016 election. Trump was demanding that the President of Ukraine investigate UKRAINIAN interference in our election, because Trump wants to remove the blame from Putin & dump it on Ukraine. Trump is trying to protect & impress Putin--AGAIN.
5. I'm not opposed to an investigation into the Ukraine-Biden connection, but whatever the outcome, it doesn't nullify Trump's guilt.
6. There was a bunch of evidence, but Mueller was prevented from utilizing it against the President due to internal policies.
7. There are always examples of individuals doing weird things. But most of the time those individuals are fringe elements who don't speak for the entire party. Of course, now, you DO have a fringe element speaking for Republicans, & he lives in the White House.
On what evidence do you base your statement?
You certainly have a way with words.
Thank you, it's a gift and a curse, that I have had to on occasion back up with more than just words
Well isn't that special, it's not even a crime, if you had one, which you don't as you lack a Quid and you lack a Quo.
Give me the CFR number of the crime you are referring to.
He demanded nothing of the sort. The aid was released without an investigation, and even if there was an investigation, it is clearly in the National Interest to get to the bottom of this apparent bribery scheme where the VP's coke addled son followed the wake of his VP father's official duties getting his pockets filled with not just $Millions, but when you add in Romania and China to Ukraine $Billions! Both Biden's do not enjoy immunity from prosecution simply because Pop's is running for office. Trump's running for office too and nobody pretends he is immune from investigation, he has been invested continually, it appears now, perhaps since shortly after he announced.
It is absolutely in the US National Interest to get to the bottom of the Ukraine and other foreign interference in the 2016 election, though it may not be the Democrats interest since it appears that it was orchestrated by the Obama Administration.
You are fabricating and wish casting. Your "case" is based on mind reading the President's very brief delay of funds Obama first held up and NEVER released.
Kinda weird how you guys are all for investigating Republican Office Holders and aspirants, but then pretend it's a "crime" to even consider investigations of Democrats!
You Fool No One!
1. your strong support of this cold-hearted, self-serving, con-man President is both confusing & alarming. Can't you find a better example of humanity to exercise your loyalties on?
2. I don't know any CFR number, but it's called the Constitution.
3. The aid was released AFTER the authorities first learned of the crime. It was released in haste in an attempt to hide the President's tracks. If it had remained secret, Trump would have succeeded in continuing his bribery against the Ukrainian President. I have no doubt Trump would have done so.
4. I have no objection to further investigations into the Ukraine situation. One thing I'll do that you seem unwilling to do. I'll let the evidence decide, rather than my own prejudices.
5. I have no argument against withholding funds due to corruption or some other valid reason connected with national security. But Trump wasn't working from a national security position. Trump was doing what Trump does best--taking care of Trump--but in this case, at the expense of the U.S.
6. I have repeatedly posted my openness to further investigations of the Ukraine situation, even on Democrats, if evidence warrants them. I'm not being partisan here. I care about our Constitution, our elections, our country, & I care about treating other countries with the same respect I expect for our own. Peace builds friendships, but bribery creates animosity & develops new enemies. Trump was bribing the Ukraine President. Trump deserves impeachment & removal from office. America deserves better than Trump.
You find it "confusing and alarming" that I have a different point of view? Whatever convinced you guys that your views are meta and relieve you from the need to evaluate real world evidence. Trump's job isn't to be our buddy. Incomes are rising, unemployment is falling, to the point that the Social Security Trust fund NEVER runs out of money if Trump can keep this up. He is staying out of unnecessary wars, he has rebuked the neocons and the warmongers, but heh, that's not important, because you find him "cold". Do you ever fear that that you may be excessively self-indulgent and self-centered?
Another thing you guys are lost on, OUR representatives WORK for US. Only Trump can separate himself from his his base, and he can only do that by being disloyal. So far, he's doing exactly what he ran on, which by the way, during the secret testimony in the impeachment farce is exactly What Trump said he expected of the President of Ukraine, that he wasn't looking for a Quid pro Quo, rather, simply for the man to do what he ran on.
That's because your claims are baseless slander. Trump hasn't broken any laws.
Then cite the Constitutional provision you claim that he has violated.
Yes he was.
Certainly animosity is appropriate when the VP is acting in his official duties and $Millions are flowing into his family's pockets. If the Obama Administration directed Ukraine's interference in our election, we certainly need to get to the bottom of that, and looking into how Biden was able to force the firing of their top prosecutor certainly supports the idea that the Obama Administration had the ability to coerce Ukraine into action. But oh, wait a minute, self-serving Democrats who happily have been witch hunting Trump for three years now declare it a "crime" to investigate someone running for office? What a joke.
Trump required NOTHING before releasing the aid. He simply had a conversation with him and then released the aid before the Quarter's end. Aid that Obama first withheld and NEVER released. But Obama holding up the aid, why that's no problem.
We had voices on the Left claiming that within twenty minutes of him taking the oath.
The VOTERS will make that determination in 362 days, not Schiff and his clowns in the Impeachment Circus.
So called whistleblower, *cough* leaker, sure gets around.
A modern day Jack Crabb
A better reference would be Zelig.
What statement? Are you denying Trump got his two key initiatives?
He didn't ask for interference in an election he asked for assistence in an investigation into possible corruption and to insure our money would not be used corruptly.
Do try to focus this has nothing to do with what I stated.
False again go read the transcript the "favor" was to help investigate Russian influence.
Guilt if what?
Not at all butbhebhad nothing not one charge of collusion or anyone working with Russians.
And the impeachable offense beyond your bromides and platitudes?
Cite from US Code the criminal statue he violated.
Its comments like that that really cofuse me. Like im living in a cartoon or something . Nobody alive can believe what he typed , but they type that and i really think they believe that ! I just dont know.
Im beginning to feel this country my Grandfather and Dad died for is lost and ruined. The election fraud in Virginia and Kentucky has rocked my hope of this ever getting back to a fair and free country. I'm old so my bones will be in this earth soon, but my grandkids... my eyes water when I see where we are headed in this country by greedy democrats.
1. Trump's public statements assert that he was asking Ukraine to look into corruption within their own country, but, corruption internal to Ukraine would not have been directed specifically toward the Biden family or companies associated with that family. Corruption in Ukraine is far more widespread, & any legitimate interest in fixing that would have to include investigations into a wide range of Ukrainian businesses & citizens. The specificity of Trump's requests here, force us to conclude he wasn't interested in fixing corruption, but using it against his personal political opponents.
2. Our own intelligence services, including the CIA, the FBI & the military, had ALL concluded the Russian military was guilty of hacking into many places directly involved in the 2016 election, & they had worked from bases located within Ukraine. Trump never felt comfortable with that info, so he was demanding that the President of Ukraine open a new investigation specifically directed at shifting the blame for the 2016 hacking from Ukraine onto the Ukrainians themselves rather than the Russians under Putin.
3. Trump is guilty of using the powers of his office to benefit his personal political goals, rather than for the benefit of the country itself--which is unconstitutional. No politician is permitted by the Constitution to use the powers of their office to promote their own re-election. Trump was bribing--extorting--the President of Ukraine by withholding badly needed military aid as a lever to get dirt on who Trump considered his most likely Democratic opponent in 2020. Both the extortion itself, & the abuse of Presidential power in seeking foreign interference in the 2020 election, are illegal & grounds for impeachment & removal.
4. If you're referring to Mueller, he as stated publicly & to Congress, that the DOJ Policy of never charging a sitting President with a crime, was noted & accepted by him from the outset of his investigation. Mueller couldn't charge Trump with ANY crime, no matter how serious. He stated in his public statement that only Congress has the power of removing a sitting President from office--not him.
5. See my #3 above.
It's found in the highest law of the land, the U.S. Constitution, in Article 1, Section 9. It says: "And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State. Trump was demanding that Ukraine give him valuable information against what he believed would be his personal Democratic opponent in the upcoming 2020 election. 1) It's ILLEGAL to involve foreign countries in our domestic elections. 2) It's ILLEGAL for any politician to accept personal gifts or payments from any foreign leader or country. And, just for good measure, 3) It's ILLEGAL for any politician to use the powers of their elected office for personal profit or personal political gain. The powers of any political office are there for the sole purpose of serving the district, state or country as a whole--NOT the person temporarily holding that office. Trump abused the powers of his office & broke the law. He deserves impeachment & removal from office.
More crapola by Adam Schiff for brains.
Separate names with a comma.