Breaking news - Arab's greatest fear "Sharon" is dead.

Do you know of any military occupation which was not done by hostile foreign forces?

We didn't? So tell me how I happened to live in some of the former German housing tracts while assigned to Germany?

 

Did the ethnic Poles attack Germany and the Nazis before they were conquered by Germany? Apples and oranges don't make your case. Israel did not start to occupy the west bank before they were attacked and had to go to war to keep their nation alive.

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So lets go back to the legal aspect. What came first, the chicken or the egg. Islamists attacked Israel first, and continued to attack Israel before they occupied any of their land contrary to UN resolutions.

 

While the German army was obviously far more powerful than the Polish army, just as the Israeli army was obviously far more powerful than the Arab armies combined, how do you know the Germans did not have the same expectations of an attack by Poland as Israel did by the Arab countries? If the Germans said they did, would you have believed them?

The evidence, which Israel was aware of at the time, indicates otherwise.

Given that Israel initially lied to the UNSC, claiming that Egypt had attacked first, and maintained that lie until US intelligence worked out that Israel had in fact attacked first, what makes you think they were telling the truth when they changed the story to ''pre-emptive attack''

 

Right!

 

Once again, those "civilian settlements" are little more than forward outposts, part of a buffer zone.

If you are talking about the occupied territory, who cares? Make the peace and watch Israel move out.

Agreed, but it should still be occupied until a proper peace and guarantees of Israels sovereignty and safety are guaranteed, like Ronstar said, "Affirms that the fulfilment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgment of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force..

It is also human nature to continue occupation until ever vestiges of hostilities are ended.

Of course they did, because those countries did not instigate the hostilities with Germans. Not the case in "Palestine."

And they have all increased the time the occupation continues. If the Islamists had accepted Israels right to exist in peace with the 1967 war ended, there would be no occupation today.

Germany and Japan.

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I accept that there were some misguided Christians among the many misguided Muslims, but that changes nothing. They joined an Islamist effort to destroy Israel.

 

bull(*)(*)(*)(*)!!!

many of the settlements are nowhere near the Jordanian border and are merely civilian settlements, seen as a future part of the state of Israel.

they are illegal, especially the ones built on confiscated private property.

 

But there they are, despite their isolation, just desperately trying to get friends.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25735532

 

Are you for real? And you wonder why no one believes your assertions!

Massing troops from a country which attacked you before suggests positively what the intent was. Preemptive strikes are always the best way to win a war.

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If they are not vacated after a just peace is established, then I will agree with you.

 

Like I said the allies were not hostile towards the German and Japanese people. Our intention was not to take their land from them, nor did we do so.

American families of US service personnel live in the UK, just like they do in Germany. Neither is a hostile occupation.

 

Late lunch time. BBL, maybe!

 

if khartoum can defy the UN and get little to no condemnation from westerners then why cant Israelis? Why do Israelis deserve special attention as opposed to their regional nemesis in Khartoum?

 

um, cause Israel is full of Jews.

and Jews get a special double standard.

 

is your name snakestretcher?

 

sorry, is there a rule against answering questions directed towards someone else?

thought not.

 

Funny how it all works out, Arafat died relatively quickly, Sharon like his viewpoint, died a slow death.

As a general, his job was to view the tactical situation and respond to it. He did that very well, especially in 1973. I admire such soldiery even if it was using superior equipment and belligerent aims. The Shatila massacare was a mixed picture but Im sure he wasnt sad about the massacre.

As a politician he acted as a general, seeing the strategic benefit of disengaging from gaza and increasing in the west bank - again proof of his genius.


People who whine about war crimes are just pissing in the wind, many historic people have both genius and disgrace on their great names. No one should cry about him but he can be respected as a general.

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LOL. Thats a real stretch, that's a recent and limited conflict you've alluded to.

 

How would you know? You've obviously never even read it sir.

You might want to read it for the first time, copy paste your evidence.

You have a strange opinion of the truth, I requested your reference and you have failed to provide, now go read some more of the new historians and imagine your own narrative from the primary because you can not provide direct quotes from Dalet to bolster your claim, in fact you can speak around that question six ways from sunday but not once answer it.

I know that he left Likud and formed Kadima in acceptance of the two state solution in violation of the Likud platform and towards the step too moderation and made the withdrawal from Gaza which is something that not even Labor and Barack had the guts to do.

Really? Provide me the portion that I misread, I'll be waiting.

Why can't you provide the copy paste of it Jonsa? Your version of Plan Dalet comes straight from Pappe not from the text of the plan.

Really? Can you provide specific examples of the Jewish Agency dehumanizing the Arabs which would provide the grounds for mass murder?

Your denial of alll modern genetic testing is pretty telling, 80% of all male and 50% of all female Jews can trace a common lineage and that includes the Ashkanazi and the Sephardim.

According to polling results the majority of Palestinians support the intentional targeting of civilians, so yes I'm glad that you understand the election of Hamas.

The Canaanites have and so have the Israelites which are simply the Canaanites who adopted monotheism, and the majority of modern Jews can trace their lineage directly to the neolithic Levant.

 

242 specifcally called for withdrawal from territories not "the territories" or "all the territories" just ask the authors sir; furthermore, that condition was based on the demand for the normalization of relations which the Arab states rejected out of hand with the 3 no's. "No recognition of Israel, no Peace with Israel, and no negotiations with Israel."

 

Actually the phrase is directed at the Arabs so they understand that the land is not gong anywhere and that they are free to take time to negotiate peace terms in return for their property. As we all know, once Israel makes peace, land is returned.

 

You are beginning to see the point. Before the troops massed to invade, neither was Israel hostile toward the Palestinians. They sought retribution for terrorism and peace if it was given to them.

It was not the allied intent to be hostile, but they won the war and occupied Germany and Japan and when the Germans and Japanese did not continue to try to kill our troops they gave the leadership back.

Yep!

Everyone who blew up a bus, or shot a rocket or sniped at the people.

There was hostility to begin with. The Germans and the Japanese were smart enough to see the writing on the wall. Why aren't the Palestinians smart enough to see the only road to peace is to stop attacking Israel?

Without Islamist hostility there would never have been Israeli occupation.

 

And some people still won't understand why the Israelis stayed.

 

wow, I posted the direct elements of the plan that would be considered ethnic cleansing (funny how this little item passed right over your head) :

4. Mounting operations against enemy population centers located inside or near our defensive system in order to prevent them from being used as bases by an active armed force. These operations can be divided into the following categories:

Destruction of villages (setting fire to, blowing up, and planting mines in the debris), especially those population centers which are difficult to control continuously.

Mounting search and control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the village and conducting a search inside it. In the event of resistance, the. armed force must be destroyed and the population must be expelled outside the borders of the state.

I wasn't aware I needed to link to the text of the plan, since you had already posted a link to it.
Considering you think it one of the most brilliant pieces of military strategy, I would have thought you'd be familiar with its details, but apparently not.

Not talking about his political career, I was talking about his military career. There can be no doubt that his late life ephiphany was remarkable and took tremendous courage. Look up what he did with Unit 101.

Is clowning a hobby of yours? Your churlish accusations are laughable. HERE IT IS AGAIN IN THE SAME POST BECAUSE I WOULDN'T WANT YOU TO MISS IT AGAIN.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Plan_Dalet.html

(b) Consolidation of Defense Systems and Fortifications

The following operations must be carried out if the fixed defensive system is to be effective and if the rear of this system is to be protected:

1. Occupation of police stations.6

2. Control of government installations and provision of services in each and every region.

3. Protection of secondary transportation arteries.

4. Mounting operations against enemy population centers located inside or near our defensive system in order to prevent them from being used as bases by an active armed force. These operations can be divided into the following categories:

Destruction of villages (setting fire to, blowing up, and planting mines in the debris), especially those population centers which are difficult to control continuously.

Mounting search and control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the village and conducting a search7 inside it. In the event of resistance, the. armed force must be destroyed and the population must be expelled outside the borders of the state.

The villages which are emptied in the manner described above must be included in the fixed defensive system and must be fortified as necessary.

Well I guess those questions really do "qualify" your opinion that Plan dalet was military genius in action.
Any idiot can tell you that political leaders do not train their armies, military commanders train them in a fashion that has been honed for thousands of years. Break them down, build them up. Along the way, ensure that the enemy is dehumanized to the extent possible to make killing them more acceptable to individual morality and basic human nature.

NONSENSE. You must be referring to Ostrer's interesting leap to unsubstantiated conclusion.
here's what responsible genetic scientics have to say about his book.

[URL="http://www.councilforresponsiblegenetics.org/genewatch/GeneWatchPage.aspx?pageId=431" [/URL]

Which poll taken, by whom, taken when? Pretty damn short of links to support your claims, and you have the gall to falsely accuse me of the same?

Jews have not been in existence for 10,000 years. Most modern jews CANNOT trace their lineage directly to neolithic Levant. You make some pretty spectacular claims without backing them up.

Not knowing what one doesn't know is a common enough trait, but when coupled with condescension and arrogance it results in damn foolish posts like yours.

BTW, being wrong is not a bad thing if one takes it as an opportunity to learn something. A mea culpa can go along way to offset the self inflicated damage to one's credibility by being embarassingly wrong.

 

If that "stunt" is withdrawing form a land you say is its objective, then your claim simply doesnt hold, its like an agrument I heard from some Egyptian, he said Israel doesnt really wanted peace because it signed it only after the horrors of the war....., if you cant see the stupidity in that phrase ill be happy to explain it to you.

 

Echoing snake..tell that to the French Resistance, 1944- to use an appealing example.

 

No, that's a Muslim myth, the aid from the US makes Israel a regional power but it can do without that aid as well, in 2013 the state saved over 12 Bln LIS (3.5 bln $) from unused budgets + higher revenues:
http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/docview.asp?did=1000909204&fid=1725

Israel can thrive with the same recognition it gets right now, we have no problems with it, the only reason there are negotiations is because of the Americans.

 

Wishful thinking. When US aid stops, few other nations will feel any obligation to have contact with the world's most despised moral pariahs. Sell your crap to each other.