Brexit Delay? The EU wants one, the UK does not.

The only people proposing a hard border have no power to create one.

Bit of a non issue really.
No one is going to attack the hard border that doesn't exist.

 

Can you explain the difference between a border and a hard border?

 

...based on no intelligence....!!??
"Warning!! we think something may happen"
"Holy crap..what makes you think that?"
"Dunno....gut feeling..."
"Errmm 'kay....anything else other then flutterings in one's digestive tract?
"Nope"
"So...no real ideas then...?
"Nope"

 

yeah....perceptions of reality....and the need to invent shyt up to try and make it like we're interested when the fact is that nobody really gives a rats fart about Ireland or the Irish.

 

Take it up with the PSNI if you think they're talking rubbish.

 

More or less my point. Anti-Irish sentiment.
I think your use of the word 'nobody' is wrong.
Perhaps you ought to have used the word 'I'.
Invoking the mystic 'we' is no supporting argument.

 

Indeed, I'll pen them a stiff letter and point it out to the blighters....however....when one reads the article its rather obvious that its a load of bollocks.....I take it you did read the article?

Okay...you mebbe...and a few gyppos currently out on a nicking spree....'meh....screw the Irish and their phucked up country....be a shed load less grief and a whole heap less taxpayers money wasted if we just up gave the northern lot to the southern lot. Job done, problem solved home for tea and toast...

 

No point in talking to you, I would rather not be contaminated by your racism. Bye.

 

oh how precious you are...racism....yeah....well....tough titty. Comes with the territory really don't you think! The Irish don't seem to worry about it so why should I. Bombing Catholics or kneecapping protestants is fine but...oh dear lord!! Racism....oh...it must be so hurtful for them....

 

Border checkpoints.
Wire fences.
Mine fields.
Watch towers.

That sort of thing.


The border is a legal delineator.
A line on the map that differentiates under which legal system you operate. In whose jurisdiction you are in.

A hard border is a system of physical defences and checkpoints to envigilate people crossing that border.

 

The differences are enforced and have sanctions.
If it is under a legal system you allude to.
That is arguably a hard border.
If a vehicle proceeds down the road across the border, no electronics, no checks and so on...there is no border soft or hard.

 

No.

That is such a bad argument however that no one in his right mind would be willing to listen to it.
I take it you aren't Irish? You don't remember that this border was militarised until recently.
Not a tax demand through the post, a soldier at the car window with a gun in your face.


How can a vehicle proceed down the road and cross a border if there is "no border?"
This is a nonsense.

There is a border.
On one side you are subject to EU rules, on the other side you are not.
Simples.

 

I have an irish passport, does that count. I have a brother who lives in Shannon, and a mother buried in rath luric. I have been back and forth from my home in london to Ireland all my life.
Let me repeat, there is a 310 mile land border with over 200 crossing points.
In the recent troubles that border had militarised crossings and helicopter patrols.
At the moment a vehicle can proceed down the road and cross the theoretical border because both the ROI and the UK are (or were) in the EU.

 

And are you as an Irish citisen going to vote in a party who will place militarised crossings on the border?
Or not?

We aren't placing any on the border, so that just leaves you.
If you do and the IRA bomb you, does that mean the UK is an EU member?

It isn't.

 

I live in London and was born in Kent. I have dual nationality.
If the UK does not have controls on the border then it is a totally open situation and therefore it won't be brexit will it?
You mention some kind of system as yet undefined (checks away from the border??!!). So what happens about transgressions?

 

Morning Phil.

Brexit has already happened mate.

There is no requirement for militarised borders in Ireland in order to leave the EU.
Hence we have left and we don't have them.

I don't understand the connection you are making between the two.
Please elaborate.
If we have an open border in Ireland... we have an open border in Ireland.
Same as normal.


Customs checks will take place away from the border at two named places.
Our WTO tariff regime has been published.
All is defined from the UK side.
Typically your shipping agent handles the paperwork and charges you accordingly.


If you get caught smuggling goods into the EU, I have no idea what happens to you.
Ask the EU.

In the UK the goods are typically confiscated until you can pay the duty.
And then sold or destroyed after a grace period if you don't.

 

The customs checks you say will take place away from the border in two named places are not the answer because they can simply be ignored.
What then does the UK do about transgressions? Ignore them and therefore have no brexit in terms of taking back control of the UK's borders?
You say goods are confiscated, can't you see a problem with that?

 

absolutely right - its all about the paperwork, pre-export customs checking and electronic filing...once done clearance is a piece of piss!
People don't seem to understand the process - I mean there are millions of containers hitting EU shores and do people think that each one is opened and inspected by a wee customs guy!!!???
Its all about the paperwork.

 

It is up to the UK what controls we place on our side of the Irish border.

Not the EU.

If we say there are not going to be any border controls other than two behind the lines customs checks at the ports, that is our decision to make.
Taking back control from the EU does not necessarily mean we have to do things differently. Only that the decisions are ours to make.


Confiscation of goods is the way we enforce our customs.
Always has been.
It's also the same way everyone else does it.

If you have a new solution, you are welcome to propose it.
Personally I have had my goods confiscated in the past because their value to me was less than the duty.

 

One solution is for the UK to not leave at all, the reason being the details of the Good Friday/Belfast agreement trumps the Brexit referendum.
It is a circle that cannot be squared.

 

That is no longer a solution.
We have already left.

Brexit has occured and the Good Friday Agreement is still being honoured and will continue to be.

The cynical use of the Good Friday Agreement by remainers to leverage IRA terrorism as a threat against the UK's withdrawal from the EU was a bluff that has been called.

None of us are scared of attacks on border checkpoints that aren't there.
Imaginary attacks on imaginary infrastructure didn't occur. Go figure.

 

It is an imaginary border, therefore it is not brexit.

 

The border is real.
It is not an imaginary line drawn on the map.
It is a real line drawn on the map.

It exists.
On one side of it you are in S Ireland on the other you are in N Ireland.
On one side of it you are in the EU on the other side of it you are in the UK.


Brexit is a change in political leadership.
The withdrawal from an international treaty.
It has occured.

The border delineates which political system rules where.

 

Yes. the border delineates which system rules where.
The systems will supposedly be different.
There will be no reliable method of overseeing what happens regarding these two different systems side by side.
maybe a picture can say a thousand words:

The EU/Swiss border



The EU/Norway border:




The UK/republic of Ireland border circa 1970's




The Republic of Ireland/UK border today:




As you can see, there are comparisons to be made regarding EU borders with non EU states.

The Belfast Agreement says there will be the removal of security installations.

If there is a modern day method of dealing with border transgressions, even in some kind of technological, or paper based, or 'remote' sense then in order to deal with transgressions there will be some kind of 'security installation' even if it is a camera, or a bicycle patrol.

In addition what is being proposed at the moment is a division of the UK with the fabled 'border down the Irish sea' which is not what was voted for in the referendum. here is some information about that.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...border-in-irish-sea-will-not-be-ready-in-time

Travelling from Northern ireland to the rest of the UK mainland will be different than before, it will have more restrictions than travelling from Suffolk to Norfolk even beyond the biological restrictions that have previously existed.

Further information:



Here is the voting slip, perhaps you can point out where it says that Northern ireland will be treated differently to the rest of the UK:



I realise this is a long and complicated post, and it must now be tempting to dismiss it with one line soundbites.

The stuff I have posted above suggests at the very least that those who voted for brexit have been conned however many times it is repeated that the UK has left.

Anyway this is supposed to be a 'transitional period'. Which is giving the government time to turn Kent into a lorry park...so there is that.

 

The border already exists and as EU members still existed.
One side used the £ the other side used the Euro.

The criminal laws on each side of the Irish border were and still are different.



The border security installations have been removed as per our agreement with S Ireland.
We aren't putting them back up.
S Ireland isn't putting any up.

No one is putting them back up.

And anyone who says they are going to have to be put back up, is not in a position of power to do so.
Just some whiney remainers/EU negotiators talking arse in an attempt to scare people into doing what they say. Powerless big mouths.
Don't bother listening to them. We have kicked them out of office.

Brexit has been delivered. They no longer rule here now.


And yes, this is a transitional period.
But it isn't one which has been spent building physical border controls.
That is clearly not what we are transitioning to.


NI is treated differently.
It has it's own assembly.
Police carry guns.
It can veto any UK laws over the border.

There is free movement of people on the Irish border.
It is a different place and it gets treated differently because of that.
Biologocal controls and cross border agri trade are the core of the regulatory differences proposed between NI and mainland UK.

They will veto this if they don't like it.
The principle of self determination is another difference NI has from say England.


I expect that you are right in that travelling to NI from the UK will involve spot checks from customs now if you go by sea.
But I am not expecting that to occur on domestic travellers. Only freight.