Brexit Delay? The EU wants one, the UK does not.

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by The Rhetoric of Life, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    .....ultimately its a waste of time arguing this point as the world has moved to a position of international trade and the invention of refrigeration and the container liner trade - granted Brexit is taking place but our imports of seasonal produce follow the planets growing cycles - we import from South America when their crops are on sale, South Africa, India, etc etc. foods are now exported as they "ripen" so that fresh produce is always in the shops. Container ships can have apples from South African trees to stores within a week of them being picked. If all we are discussing is French Cheese or Danish Bacon or German Beer then...well... so what. If you think Brexit will stop that trade then more fool the person that thinks it because it simply will not.
     
  2. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Some of the people out there are not rich.

    They will have to come home to get the health care.
    I think that is the bottom line in their situations.
    Also those who are not rich are not going to get citizenship in their current countries of residence.
     
  3. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    agreed just because they have a pension and live on the costa don't mean they are loaded!
    But will they if they can't afford the travel insurance which includes medical coverage or if their pre-existing conditions make travel difficult or not an option without insurance.... quite a lot of these folk are doddery old souls and there because the warm climate stops them from seizing up.

    Not so simple for some of them really is it?
     
  4. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Yes. It will.
    But it will harm you harder as you export more here than we do to you.
    We are well up for it.
    The rest is up to you.

    I know you think you should scare us... but you really don't.
    We are just laughing at you.




    45% of exports figure includes services.

    50% of our export goods went to the EU in that year (2018 )
    42% of our export sevices went to the EU in that year.

    The value of our exports in services is higher than the value of our exports in goods.
    Services are our primary exports. Most of which are traded in Europe outside of any EU agreement. Are unaffected by Brexit.
    We have been asking the EU to give us free trade in services since before we joined. They have promised and promised and promised but never delivered and they never will either.


    Access to your pathetic fisheries are no compensation for you having 80% of the catch in ours.
    Happy to give up access to EU fisheries.
    No problem.
    You don't have any rights to our territory. Jog on.

    We are in a position to defend it. You are in a position to die trying to take it.
    That is the only power dynamic here.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  5. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Compared to Romani peasant, having a pension, let alone retiring in the Costa does mean you are loaded.
    That is exactly what it means.


    They already do come home for health treatment. That is the norm.

    It is that simple.
    If they can't afford to live in the EU they will have to come back here.

    Not every expat has a pension or a high paying job.
    But almost all do.


    You have identified some exceptions.
    But these exceptions do not a rule make.

    i stand by my premise.

    1 million rich Brits in exchange for 3 milliion poor Euro's has not been a good deal for the UK. In the daft scenario that we are to exchange them back, that works in the nations favour, not against it.
     
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  6. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    drones
    workers

    ....?


    I think you are actually missing a much wider discussion point with regards to the poor immigrants coming into a comparatively wealthy consumer based economy that has fallen victim to the political version of the "globalist" cult - wages and aspirations of the native young for example.
     
  7. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    O dear ... can ou just simply stop lying please?

    These 45 % do NOT include services by any statistic I know! With service, we are at 50%!

    Secondly ... yes, in pure GBP or EUR, the EU exports more into UK as UK does into EU ... BUT ... again and as usual you don't tell the fact: Your exports into EU are 45% ... no matter with or without services ... but how much in percent are the exports of EU into UK again? Depending to source somthing about 5% to 7%!!!
    So ... WHO WILL BE HURT MORE AGAIN, EH??? *******n it ...

    And about your services ... most of them are in financial sector = in London... isn't it?
    Well ... these services are reducing drastic, bause how many of these finance companies shift their head office away into another EU country and let only a local office left, eh? Please do me the favour and deny this fact ... please!

    And about fisheries ... finally you got it that the UK started this with their demand and not the Eu is the evil, because the EU reacted with a well reasoned counter demand to you absird cherry picking BS ... but you still defend it like mad in your hate against the EU.
    For now, it is hopefully clear to you that the EU will continue to have full access until at least December 31, 2020 ...no matter what happens until deadline of July 01, 2020!
    Why? Because your great PM Boris Johnson simply copied that copy from Theresa May's templates into the agreement ... so it has been contractually guaranteed!
    Then ... your biggest agitator is Michal Gove, isn't it? He constantly claims that it was the bad EU, which is why his family's fish factory went bankrupt back then ... just ... if you ask his father, who owned the factory, he says something completely different!
    And then let's take the facts: fishing accounts for 0.1% of your economic output ... and is therefore irrelevant to the people concerned who only make decisions with a calculator. The financial sector you mentioned makes up 5% and And let's add the closely interlinked automotive industry with the suppliers ... then the interests of the fishermen on your island will quickly fall into the drawer named "unimportant" ... yours own drawer, not that of the EU!
    And finally about damned unimportant fishery and your constnat telling not the truth: 45% of fishing in UK waters is done by EU members, mostly French and Spanish. 21% by Norwegian which are NOT part of the EU and the Rest by your own or others which you gave still as EU member permission to do so! Sooo ... your written 80% are totally rubbish!!!

    But to make it clear once and for all:

    I don't really care whether the EU and UK agree on an agreement or not ... I really give a crap on it. You are no longer an EU and if you are not willing to behave like sensible people with regard to such an agreement, then you should get same drastic rules with full custom tariffs as they apply to all others without agreements according to the WTO, the UN Charter or I the telephone book of London if necessary as a basis!
    Both sides, EU and UK will then bleed ... but I don't care either, because you will bleed properly, which I don't care. Whoever laughs last is best to laugh ...

    But what annoys me permanently is this drum fire of lies and fake news from you Brexit clowns ... and let's just say that no agreement is reached and then the tariffs come into force, which will bring you drastically rising unemployment figures (even denied) Nigel Farrage not in a meeting of the EU Parliament ... then you will blame the EU for it again. Sorry brother Brexit ... it's your own fault!
     
  8. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    We don't need workers that don't pull their weight.
    Even if a low skilled EU migrant is a net tax contributor, and frankly that is highly unlikely.
    The levels of infrastructure needed to support them have to be built.

    Drop the population by 2 million and we have all the infrastructure.

    Yes there is a big argument on economics to be had here.
    However, I suspect it's one we have already had.

    The decisions have all been taken.
    We are where we are.
     
  9. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we have heard all your threats before.
    You are going to hurt us more than we hurt you.

    Good luck with that.


    Your figures were wrong, and I corrected you. Deal with it.
    You cry about fake news, but all news you don't like the sound of is fake to you.
    All news that doesn't stroke your feelings of superiority is "fake" in your eyes.
    No one cares if you don't like it. Boo hoo.



    More of your financial services companies moved to Lonfon and registered here, than did ours move to the EU and register there.
    We gained more jobs than we lost.

    We are the global capital in financial services. The number 1.
    You guys? You can't even keep a single currency.

    It's good that our fisheries are unimportant to you.
    Because they aren't yours.
    Equally of course, fishing makes up sod all of your GDP, just as finanical services does also.
    However before we joined the EEC, our fishing industry was 4 times bigger.
    We owe it to these people to undo the injustice that was done to them.

    Thank you for your correction on the Norewgian quota not being part of the EU quota. My mistake.
    We have agreed a new deal with Norway already, BTW.


    We are not going to be bleeding from leaving the EU.
    Quite the opposite, the EU was bleeding us, and now that will stop.
    From here on things get better for us.
    This is time of great optimism for the country.
    There is so much new opportunity for us to capitalise on now that the "Iron Curtain" has dropped.



    How are things looking for you country?
    You seem to be having lots of trouble with the EU.
    Are you optimistic for your or it's future?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2020
  10. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    Hi mate, you may want to have a look at this in a bit more depth and not get sucked in to the "chat site" narratives as its actually a lot more complex than that. Its a case of those UK companies that don't currently have "establishment" within the EU doing so. For example some of our Company's biggest clients are the likes of Commerzbank, DB and CACIB thus we have to have an "Establishment" in the EU (for us its Brussels) with a fully licensed office - you hear of all these jobs moving from London to the EU the reason is that if you are client facing or dealing direct to the public i.e. dealing direct to a client with an office/located in the EU you have to be an employee of your EU registered entity. All our client facing brokers now have EU employment contracts within the Brussels office but they are still employed and work from London and paid in the UK. All of these people moving to the EU is an illusion for the purpose of compliance and licensing.

    There is a myth about this London / EU services situation - I mean don't get me wrong its costing companies a lot of money, time and effort in order to obtain the licenses and obtain compliance parity but its being done. Ultimately it will benefit the EU as the UK services sector as way more professional and robust than many within the EU - you just have to look at the BASEL III; the failure of the stress testing of Deutsche Bank for example and the fact that the UK insurance sector provides a significant amount of the capital requirements for EU bank compliant lending.
     
  11. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Sure mate ... so far correct and I don't deny what you write ... but ... there is for example this free movement agreement, which was not only one of the reasons for the pro Brexit people to vote for Brexit with view of all these EU foreigners living and working in the UK ... it is still under dispute at the negotiations. One example in the UK where this can mean trouble is Edwards Vacuum which has its head office in the UK, but for example the production and several issues like finance administration somewhere in Czech Republic sitting ... with people from UK working in CZ and some other EU countries where they have offices and plants etc. They will be in trouble ..

    And the same is given for these finance companies and insurance agencies too with their offices inside the EU ...
     
  12. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    This was not threat, this was a promise ... btw.

    And we are very fine with the EU ... and I don't know which nonsense you heard about we are in trouble with the EU. Andi still told you that I personally want to end the EU and build a new one with the core of Benelux, France and us only ...maybe some few others like Finland or Danmark ... but only this way we get rid off from ungrateful countries like the UK and Greece or betrayers like Hungary etc.

    And again ... I don't know which fariy tale sources you always take for believing such nonsens like you are the no. 1 in global capitalize etc. Sure, you are still, but how long in future? This is the point ... but don't waste my and your time with an answer like forever it will be or so.

    And as I said, I am personally glad that you are out of the EU. Your eternal grumbling and your eternal cherry picking demands, together with your ingratitude, that the EU got you out of the crisis in the 1980s and then the drum fire of lies in Brexit are enough.
    Have fun and luck alone ... but do me a favor: if there is no agreement with the EU and customs duties come up etc. and then you get sick ... please don't come and blame the EU. YOU ... yes YOU have said since the vote that you do not want an agreement, but WTO rules with tariffs etc. ... so live with the consequences and do not seek scapegoat for your own mistakes at the EU!
     
  13. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    why?
     
  14. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    If brexit voters voted to stop the free movement of people from the EU then they are going to be very disappointed. There is a wide open door on the island of Ireland.
     
  15. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Why would they be in trouble?
    Free movement is ending. Not all movement.

    It's quite normal for countries to allow migration of critical or high value workers.

    You are taking things to extremes with this one.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  16. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    And always has been.
    Even before the EU.

    However the free movement between UK and Eire does not apply to any non Irish EU citizen.
    A French man arriving in the UK via Ireland will not be automatically granted migration rights.
     
  17. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    How will the UK stop the French person arriving?
     
  18. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    We are going to make you live up to that promise.


    London is the No.1 financial capital in the world.
    This fluctuates between London, New York and Hong Kong, but currently it is London.



    We aren't alone.
    The rest of the world have greeted our exit with open arms and wide applause.
    You see, they rather like that we have changed our trade focus away from the EU, towards them.

    And they have many of the same issues with you that we do. The EU is a globally despised organisation. Even within Europe it is widely despised.

    Leaving the EU has done wonders for our diplomatic standing in the world.



    We have seen how the EU helps out it's friends in need when they are sick.
    By stealing all their medical equipment! Lol.
    Don't worry, we won't be coming to you. We have real friends.



    I share your thinking for a return to rich countries only in the EU. There is a lot of sense in that position.
    The counterpoint to that is that the rich export economies have massively benfitted from an undervalued currency. If you share a currency with only the rich countries, it's value will go up and your exports will go down.

    France will of course remain a problem.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  19. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    It won't.

    We welcome French people.


    What we won't be doing is granting them legal permanent residency in our country, unless they meet the same migration requirements as anyone else in the world has to.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  20. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    There are a lot of people for whom the notion of legal permanent residency is something for later, much later. Given the big increase of people risking all in the English channel, the route via Ireland is a wide open door for anybody in the ROI. I doubt the ROI will be the UK's immigration service.
     
  21. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    We've always had problems with Pikey's.
    Irish migration issues are nothing new,

    If you wish to go to war with Ireland, or something, campaign for it I suppose.
    I'm not really sure where you are coming from here?

    You want to close the Irish border? Remilitarise it?
    End the GFI and generally ignore the troubles of the past?




    What's going on in the English channel is a disgrace.
    France needs to face repercussions.
    They must be made to lose so much from doing this that they just don't think it is worth it.

    I recommend withdrawing our military support from Burko Fasino.
    Let them lose their uranium supply. See if they still want to give naval escorts to people sumgglers after that.

    Calais needs closing too. Let trade go through Belgium and the Netherlands.
    They must pay a price bigger than they are willing to. Or this will only get worse.

    Given that we actually like the French I find them treating us this way to be nothing short of depressing. Relations must be downgraded now.
    They are no longer an ally.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
  22. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    An open border in Ireland means no brexit.
    Pretty simple to understand.
     
  23. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Brexit has alreadly occured.
    The Irish border is still open.

    It is open after we have left the EU, just as it was open before we joined the EU.
    There are no plans to close this border in the future.

    What were you expecting to have happened?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020
  24. philosophical

    philosophical Well-Known Member

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    I was expecting the whole of the UK to be treated the same way as voted for on the 2016 brexit ballot.
    Northern Ireland is treated differently, so whatever is happening isn't brexit.
    There is a reason for that.
    So in my view brexit hasn't happened as voted for, and anybody who thinks it has is operating doublethink.
    Additionally brexit was promoted amongst other things as 'taking back control' of the borders.
    An uncontrolled 300+ mile open land border between the UK and the EU is certainly not that is it?
     
  25. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    It was never controlled by anyone else either.

    I see your point on differences for NI.
    However they really are rather slight in my opinion and ultimately practical.

    I wouldn't have minded if NI had become a kind of duty free country between the UK and the EU.
    That could have worked for them. Provided them with an opportunity to make much money.
    It wouldn't have been all bad.

    However as long as they wish to fly our flag, I wish to support them in this.
    Ultimately if any of this pisses them off enough, they have the power of veto.

    I put it to you that these two or three agricultural alignments are of no concern to anyone but the border farmers and that they will be OK with it.


    Northern Ireland is treated different from Great Britain in many other ways too.
    Armed police. Automatic dual nationality with EIRE.
    It's own assembly and laws etc.

    It is a different place and there is no reason not to recognise this.


    That all said, I now see where you are coming from.
    I don't wholly disagree with what you are saying either.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2020

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