Brexit: how do voters feel about the EU now?

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by LafayetteBis, Jul 31, 2019.

  1. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,110
    Likes Received:
    1,058
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    it already is
     
  2. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2017
    Messages:
    2,110
    Likes Received:
    1,058
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    the BBC and Laura Corbinsseberg...face it this Brexit thing ain't happenin...just a wee bit too democratic for everyone, I mean it was never supposed to happen in the first place! Just a wizzard wheeze that went tits up in Cameron's mush...fun while it lasted though
     
    The Rhetoric of Life likes this.
  3. philosophical

    philosophical Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    28
    No border in Ireland means no Brexit. Why should the EU strike a deal of any kind with a country that can't keep its word which is what happens if and when the UK breaks the GFA?
    Trade and the urge to spaff off over money might be what drives brexiters, but for some the whole thing is not about money at all.
     
  4. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Who knew the GFA would be such a headache?
    David Cameron?


    *rhetorical questions

    **I'm not suggesting he knew about it and knew Brexit won't happen without breaking the GFA, which in itself is cause for concern since he didn't know about it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  5. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Why should UK have a deal it couldn't ratify?

    Why should President Trump have a deal with the EU after Germany never kept the good word of the Lisbon Treaty's article 125 and broke the agreement to save the Euro and control Greek economics in Germany's favour.
    Germany has spoken for all of the EU when the EU let this happen with that logic.
    The Good Friday Agreement, The Lisbon Treaty, these things can be broken it seems.
    So we have a border. Big deal. Germany still owned Greek debt and forced Greece to pay rather than revoke membership for misleading the EMF and ECB and kick Greece out of the EU for a Grexit.

    https://www.cvce.eu/content/publica...236-47c8-9db3-e2199d825cfb/publishable_en.pdf

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/12/eu-agrees-greece-bailout

    WTO speaks louder than the European Communities or anyone else.
    Did anyone in the European Communities even bother to notify WTO about the Greeks trading with the Germans on a 1 way street, buying German with Germany money? The EU can be trusted to be untrustworthy and equal but unfair. Tell me, is Donald Trump rushing for a deal with the EU, or a deal with the UK if the UK gets out of the EU alive.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  6. philosophical

    philosophical Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2017
    Messages:
    244
    Likes Received:
    63
    Trophy Points:
    28
    OK. Can you describe the controlled border in any way. A starting point would be 320 miles in length, with over 200 crossing points. What are you suggesting happens in practice?
     
  7. gnoib

    gnoib Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    43
    What load of hogwash
     
  8. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The Rhetoric of Life wants to ''take back control'' and then hand it over to the US.
     
  9. gnoib

    gnoib Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Bolton loves himself some British serfdom.
     
  10. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You think you're too good for American and want the UK to be locked to the EU with a deal. An EU deal Brexit is the worst Brexit of them all.
    You're like a Ukrainian bitching about the fall of the USSR; you want to be in a bloc because that's all you know.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2019
  11. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, it's history actually, recent history.
     
    ToddWB likes this.
  12. Montegriffo

    Montegriffo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2017
    Messages:
    2,416
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No, I don't want a crappy deal which is far worse than what we have already.
    I want to scrap article 50.
     
  13. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, you can't. Why do you think EU membership is good for a country like UK?
    The economy of the Eurozone and Freedom of Movement from poor arse countries to the UK is reasons not to be, then we have the mutation of the EEC turning into a federlised Europe without asking anybody.
     
  14. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No one wants a crappy deal btw, so why call off Brexit because the UK doesn't like the deal on the table? People who voted to leave the EU were wrong? That's not democracy.
    What happens if the vote goes back to the people and Remain wins?
    That's asking people to vote until the result is the right result.
    If Leave wins again, will people want a better deal from the EU?
    No deal Brexit means UK can make new deals. Put the EU somewhere else in the queue. It also means business as usual with the European Communities because EU/European Union isn't even a term the WTO use for the EU.

    The WTO is proof the EU forgets itself. It isn't a country, it has no power to punish a no deal Brexit, the only thing the EU can do is offer a worse deal or push for more time, and this agreement has article 50 which is the exit for anyone who wants out.
    We must respect the right to leave a partnership, and use a no deal Brexit as a precedent if anyone else wishes to leave the club if anyone ever has to in the future.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  15. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Going to bend the rules of the Lisbon Treaty again are they? Save EU from Brexit by revoking and stalling Article 50 like when Merkel bailed out Greece contrary to Article 125 of the Lisbon Treaty and the advice of the ECB to save the single currency against the advice of the ECB to bail out Greece.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_surrounding_the_Eurozone_crisis
    Who wants to do deals with a hostile EU? Not Trump, not the UK if this deal is the only deal.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  16. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You need Article 50 for the good of Europe against the EU.
    The European Communities cannot punish anyone for leaving it.
    A partnership in business in the UK for example needs an exit plan in place; Article 50 isn't an exit plan per say, but it is an exit for anyone wants out.
    Only an idiot wants to scrap Article 50 so no one can leave the partnership.
    EU isn't a country like USA.
    A US state can not legally leave the union, the EU isn't a country, it has countries and Article 50 allows a country to leave if it wanted to, much like a partnership works in UK business law.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  17. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Saw a UK high end car (Bently) driving through Croydon the other day, followed that in, the thing I loved most about it was; I had rarely (if ever) seen a Monaco license plate before, but it was UK built RHD driving south from London through Croydon. Followed it all the way to Croydon before it went one way and I went another.
    Why can't UK be more like Monaco? A tax paradise haven to keep London competitive on the world stage against Frankfurt. Jeremy Corbyn is too Communist to lead the UK.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  18. gnoib

    gnoib Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Nobody was asked ?
    Your government had a veto right, but voted for the transformation.
     
  19. gnoib

    gnoib Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    43

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Financial_Stability_Facility
     
  20. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Doesn't make it right.
    The EU will be unstable with Brexit unless Brexit doesn't happen or EU gives UK a bad deal.
    A no deal Brexit might require another special purpose vehicle potentially making it that no one else can leave if they want to, for stability of the EU, again.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  21. gnoib

    gnoib Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Just showed you, that you post BS.
     
  22. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2015
    Messages:
    7,489
    Likes Received:
    1,284
    Trophy Points:
    113
    R
    Fwiw, i think t is relatively easy to think of reasons not to like the EU.
    Therefore there is a certain attraction to voting brexit
    But the benefits, and pitfalls of Brexit inevitably remain hypothetical until the decision is actually implemented.

    Imo, if Brexit was really such a good idea, Britain would be gone from the EU already.
    The fact that Brexit has not happened seems to indicate that Brexit is more complicated than was presented to the voters. , i surmise that Brexit will become even less popular as the UK government is actually forced to make difficult choices... the downsides of brexit will become real.

    Otoh, i think many brexiteers want brexit no matter the cost.... and most likely they will stand by brexit and blame the government for poor implementation. But imo, Brexit will be the clown show that keeps on giving
     
    The Scotsman likes this.
  23. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    You showed me how something was rushed to save the EU breaking Article 125.
    Revoking Article 50 for everybody might be rushed to save the EU too if you justify 'the need to save the EU' as an end to the means.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
  24. gnoib

    gnoib Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Wrong, the EU and its members reacted to the financial crisis.
    You blamed everything on Germany and how it broke Article 125 and bought Greece so to speak.
    Wrong, flat out wrong, as everything you write about the EU and Germany.
    The council of the EU, which included your country, voted on creating this emergency fund.
    Some of had to be voted on by each countries parliament.

    Your parliament voted YES. Your Government voted in the council, YES
     
  25. gnoib

    gnoib Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2019
    Messages:
    977
    Likes Received:
    189
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Nobody in the EU, not one country, believes it will not be a hard Brexit on Oct 31.
     

Share This Page