Brexit LIVE: ‘UK NOT READY for EU trade talks!’

"May warned negotiations could take YEARS. THERESA May has been warned by the UK’s former ambassador to the EU that Britain is massively unprepared for hugely complex trade talks with the European Union, should her Brexit deal make it through Parliament."

Jesus effing wept! What with this ongoing and evidently never-ending fiasco, the societal division in the US and the imminent impeachment of the POTUS, and now Macron in France having delusions of megalomania, if we have any enemies - and we have! - now would be the perfect time for them to strike; they, our lords and masters, would be running around like headless chickens. And to think it could all have been done and dusted 3 weeks after Article 50 was invoked. Where's Nigel when ya need him?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...sa-may-irish-backstop-no-deal-meaningful-vote

 

France and Germany are trying to manipulate EU competition rules in order to create their own industrial power bloc within the EU - EU Competition regulators are not falling for it for at the moment (Siemens-Alstom merger) but there is an interesting battle being fought in order to protect the smaller countries. I wonder how that fits in with Macron' narrative in the article you posted...

...as opposed to France and maybe Germany retreating into themselves in order to protect themselves from China and the outside world. Is that in the interest of all the EU or just France?

 

You have a better grasp of the minutiae than me with my borderline dyslexia, Scotty. I get confused by numbers and when sequencing various scenarios.

 

= daily sex...

 

Actually I just got that - an anagram. Very good.

 

Have you heard of the Aachen treaty ?
Have you ?
If not google it and than do your duty and read it and if you want the historical background for it read numero uno and than look at the development of the EEC.
And while you at it google Aachen and its meaning to Europe, Central Europe naturally, 1200 years or so ago and you might get the drift, oh lets not forget the place it was signed.

 

no mate...life's too short....what's the gist of it.

 

Whats the latest on saturday nites report of a possible coup.
I read that Majid Khan had put his aspirations to be PM on hold until the autumn to
enable Lidington to become an "interim" PM.
Khan as PM one day would just about fuk the UK wouldnt it...

 

Having a free trade deal with the EU is far from being ready.

 

It has not even started.

 

In deed.

The EU for one, is determined a country can't be better off outside of the EU than inside, so wish to punish any exiting nation to deter others from following suit, I mean, how do you even begin to talk about a trade deal with a body acting like that?

 

You are funny.
The Uk decided to leave. The terms of the leave have not jet decided by the UK, not by the EU.

So how do you negotiate a further trade deal, if you do not know how and where the probable partner stands.

Remind you the UK decided to leave, not a decision of the EU. The UK can not make up its mind how to leave.

Its your domestic cluster F....., which prevents any further decisions.
The utmost stupidity and amateurish behavior of your political system.
Its not the EU, its your country.

And you as Brexiteer are responsible for it.
You voted without any knowledge at all for Brexit.
You even don't know how the EU operates, what its bodies are, what rights they have.
Simply said, the most uninformed people of all times voted their country into disaster.
But that Farage idiot, what a hero.
Bailing out the minute he had to answer any questions and you still stand behind him, really ?
All you have left is the bad EU

Very impressing

 

I personally voted Remain and I voted in London (an area that like me also voted to Remain)...

But what's done is done. The EU wants a Brexit that'll deter others from leaving.

I don't think anybody needs reminding but the EU, that UK chose to leave the EU.
UK chose not to be in the EU.
We want to leave, this means you have to be dicks about it citing UK chose to do what it wants as a reason to be a dick to the UK.
You must know, that if the EU didn't try it, other countries in the EU would see the UK getting a better deal outside of the EU and wish to exit as well, and then there'd be no EU left.
So how can there be a deal with the UK and the EU if the EU are determined to punish UK saying it's the UK who chose to leave as the reason?

 

They're not being dicks, they're being realistic. Britain was warned right from the beginning there would be no cherry picking.

 

Correctly! And what happened during the last two years in the negotiations? There were the most adventurous Cherry Picking claims from the UK to the EU!
Sure ... each side tries to make the best possible deal as an agreement, but it's counterproductive to lose the sense of reality with it!
And since the UK negotiators, as well as the Foreign Minister for a long time, were "no deal" Brexit people, there is a reasonable suspicion that the British were not interested in an agreement and were intentionally bothering the EU with Cherry Pickings!

And it's not just about trade and the Irish border issue ... the list of things that must be settled with an agreement is long!
And it gets really ridiculous when these No Deal people say that you can bargain better about future trade, etc. with a No Deal. Hello? Somehow vacuum in the head? Why did not you do that directly for the last 2 years ... instead of wasting time?

Bla bla bla ...
the old rivalry with the evil French and the even more evil Germans of you Britons ... paired with melancholy about your former greatness and worthiness. which no longer exists and a feeling of humiliation, as winners of the WW-2 worse than the loser and all those who were freed. Just ridiculous!

But funny is that it was just this evil EU Commission with this evil Juncker, which prevented the marriage between Alstom and Siemens ... funny, so at least ... soooo evil they can't be in Brussels, eh?

Nice example of how you actually have no idea about what you as Brexit advocates called evil. Is pretty ignorant ..

 

Because the EU knows others will leave if UK gets what it wants.

 

Pure fabrication. Typical leavers pie in the sky.

Boris Johnson said on June 11th 2017: "There is no plan for no deal, because we're going to get a great deal"

Liam Fox said on 20th July 2017 : "The free trade deal we will do with the EU should be the easiest in history."

John Redwood said 17th July 2018 : " Getting out of the EU can be quick and easy- The UK hold most of the cards"

Rees-Mogg said in the October before the referendum: " We could have two referendums. As it happens, it might make more sense to have the second referendum after renegotiation is completed"

Hah! Just what are you leavers so afraid of? A second referendum was mooted by your side.

Let's do it. You might even win again.

 

.....its spelt blah B..L..A...H... blah

 

I read in an American Journal bla bla bla ... but OK, in future with "h"

 

good so we have that back on track...can you explain what you mean in your sentence.....

what on earth is that supposed to mean and what on earth do you think I was getting at? You seem to be getting all hot under the collar about Europe and what you think I think about Germany and France... I can offer you a hint... I was born in Germany and have lived half my life in Germany both my kids were born in Germany I go there very often...I like Germany...and will be retiring there...I'm thinking of a little place called Weisenbach or around that area...not decided just yet! So can you please get this strange notion out of your head that I have some issue with other continental countries....I don't....I think we have covered this already but I just wanted to make it a bit clearer for your understanding.

Just a thought though...have you been following the stories in the press about the inter-governmental relationships within the EU...I mean in terms of this Franco-German alliance which has been called the Aachen Treaty (of which I know absolutely nothing about), for example arms sales to KSA following the Khashoggi incident or the....and I hesitate to mention this again as I know you get rather agitated about it...the Nord StreamII project...and before you get all nationalistic and say its not an issue and I'm being stupid and don't understand anything and its all evil anti-German and stuff....well look at the French position on that AFTER they signed the Aachen Treaty (of which I know absolutely nothing about). Did you think that the French Foreign Ministry's comments in February were helpful...for the advancement of Franco-German relations I mean?

Look at the ethos of Defence within the EU. You made some comment about the UK....

...something to do with the UK in previous centuries I think you are alluding too....much like that of France I hasten to add and their "empire" to which they are still having issues with and still factor in their international relations! Which leads to some interesting Foreign Policy diversification in terms of "mutual defence" centrics, along the lines of France taking the more direct approach in terms of world events whilst Germany is a rather reluctant player...I think we discussed this ealier? Look at the situation in Syria and how the "European" response and operations are conducted, apart from......Germany.

To be honest I'm not really that interested with the asinine squabblings over this Brexit thing...politicians expending hot air over deals or no deals...backstops or no backstops...its just a lot of nothing. For me the interesting dynamics are how the countries of Europe will respond to the likes of China or Russia or the US and how these and indeed where all these threads and interactions are going. I'm interested in geo-politics and relationship management.

 

again I don't understand what point you are trying to make other than increasing your post count? Do you think that the issue would be better if the proposed merger had been with Bombardier? For me the issue was one of protectionism in that Alstom is having difficulty surviving without the backing of the French government which owns 20% of Alstom. And, based on their current performance and prospects the French Government are proposing to increase that by another 20% by purchasing the Bouygues equity holding thus making it de facto a French government owned asset - is this the basis of EU free markets? Which was probably the thought of the competition regulator that ruled against it - against the lobbying of the likes of IG Metall et al? It sort of goes against the tenets of Macrons speech to the Sorbonne don't you think? Unless of course he was actually suggesting that the CAP and Defense etc. whilst being a co-operative pan-EU aspiration is a defence of the French industrial issues at the expense of the German tax payer? Its interesting to read the Sorbonne speech in conjuction with the Aachen compromise (of which I know absolutely nothing) and juxta position that with the Macron's domestic issues! Anyway there's only so much cognitive dissonance I can take in one day ...also tschuss bis spater

 

#1
On the one hand, you are constantly blaming the EU for the bureaucracy and the EU taking away your sovereignty from the British ... but when the EU does its job and says no to the merger of Alstom and Siemens (railway sector) you mentioned, then Do you think it's good and suddenly you are blaming the two countries where these global players are sitting?
Something does not fit ...

#2
It was Franco-German relations and the reconciliation of both countries after centuries of wars that formed the basis of the EU. It was actually the so-called Montanunion of both countries, which triggered it!
And since both countries form the two largest economies in the EU and pay the most money into the EU, they both speak regularly and renew their friendship and their commonality. As leading member states, they also have a sense of responsibility that they can live up to. Even though both of them have greater weight than others in the EU, everyone in the EU Council will end up with just one vote, as will the EU's smallest and weakest member!
Did you know that the French and German military form a joint brigade with its own troop badge and command structure and changing commanding officers in all units from both countries? Just as an example, how deep the relationships go elsewhere.

As far as the relationship of the heads of government in both countries is concerned, that is changeable. At the moment, Macron is a little over-zealous in ours and also in my eyes when it comes to EU issues. That's why Merkel is currently more the brake at Macron.
But even if both are not really on same point of view in detail at this or that point, they talk damn often together and try to get a common line ... and the general Franco-German friendship is damn deeply anchored.

#3
As far as defense within the EU is concerned, it is first of all the case that most EU members are also NATO members. Within this NATO structure there are also "unions" in Europe, such as the German-French Brigade already mentioned above. The same exists, e.g. between Germany and the Netherlands ... and here even a special feature. The Dutch have only 16 Leopard 2A6 main battle tanks and they form a company within a German tank battalion - tank batallion 414. That in turn is part of the German-Dutch Brigade, which consists of other units from both countries ... nearly like the Franco-German Brigade!

Personally, I am more and more inclined to oppose the continuation of NATO ... because Donald Trump shows clearly how the US sees NATO and how outrageous the US is here. The only thing that the United States actually does for NATO is nuclear deterrence and nothing else!

#4
As far as the British Empire is concerned, not only do I have the impression that in the UK there is still a melancholy about the loss of the Empire, from which completely illusory ideas and wishful thinking are generated. Yes, there is still the Commonwealth ... great ... but this is or can be the substitute for trade with the EU, as some seriously claim? Sorry ... that's ridiculous, because the Commonwealth is politically and economically irrelevant and nothing more than a club of former colonies and Dominons of UK, where many still accept the Queen as a formal head of state - nothing more!
France also had many colonies and, like the UK, certain connections with them. Also, France also has overseas territories like the UK from that time until now.
And Germany? Germany exists as a state only since 1871 and it had only from 1885 a few own colonies in Africa and in Asia ... until 1918! Closer or friendlier relationships exist here with Togo and Namibia still today.
And as for the low German commitment on the international level, it is mainly because we have learned from the Second World War our lessons! Our constitution forbids any military adventures and missions that are "normal" to you. They are permissible only within the framework of NATO and with the consent of the Parliament in the context of an official UN mission.
This was also reflected, for example, for a long time and is still in partsl on the equipment of our Armed Forces that is primarily designed for use in Europe = the defense of Germany and NATO. I myself was also in Somalia in service in the 1990's and I remember the oven in our APC "Fox" with 70 ° C ... which was not built for use in a desert or hot savanna.

#5
As far as arms sales are concerned, Germany is on the brakes of KSA, for example. The Saudis are determined to replace their M1A2 tanks with German Leopard 2A7 ... but our government says no. For other things she says Yes ... partly because there are older legally binding contracts.

And to North Stream ... sorry ... that's a red cloth for me, if there's anyone from the outside upset over it. It is the decision of Germany and the decision came long before the conflict in Ukraine began. How Germany wants to secure its gas supply is our business and does not concern anyone else ... certainly not any hypocritical Americans and / or "Cold War Dinosaurs" who generally see the evil in Russia simply because it is Russia ... or because Russia as a world power also pursues its interests as others do.

 

Once again ...
Alstom (TGV and AGV trains) and the railway sector of Siemens (= ICE trains) are giants in the industry and both have problems and both want to go together. The authorities in France and Germany said yes ... BUT:
The EU Commission says no for reasons of competition law (Kratellrecht) because both together would dominate the market totally.
That is ... so that the Americans understand it too ... as if Ford wanted to merge with General Motors to become one company in the US auto market!

So ... the EU Commission says no! So, in short, the Commission, which is being abused by the UK so much, because it would take away the sovereignty. Does she also here, but is this suddenly OK? Is not that strange to hypocritical?
Just by the way ... I personally have not been a friend of the merger!

 

I agree with you. There is rather a disconnect in the strategic direction of travel.

Indeed and this is was something I thought we could explore within the aspirations of the Marcon speech at the Sorbonne....have you read it?

I know that's why I brought it up but it has to be discussed in the context of the geo-political relationships not only with Germany and Russia but again in the context of the the defined goals of energy dependence within the EU and much much more. Why do you think that France was instigating amendments to the EU directives governing the project? The issues within a global context are much wider than you seem to understand though which is why I brought it up again. You seem to be viewing everything in some myopic inward EU only perspective, yet the EU is trying to formulate a narrative on its wider global strategy and in doing so is having to ask some very difficult questions; which with the current configuration of the political systems and internal political dynamics seems not equipped to deal with. Ergo...read Macrons speech...its quite interesting. Europe is at a turning point and at the moment it is having difficulty dealing with the wider contexts of its international situation.

That's exactly my point but why? What's his reasoning and where is he going with it and is this something which all EU countries are going to accept Germany and France came up with a concept to challenge China with the Siemens merger but was denied on the basis of the other EU countries....what are the political ramifications of this and does this help the EU with the Chinese?....this is the reason that I am engaging with you. Everything else you are coming up with is just the usual Brexit crap...and I'm not interested in the Brexit crap...

Read the Macron speech and than place it next to the Aachen compromise and then look at the political implications of the Siemens merger and the geo-political ramifications of the Nord Stream project for example....they all seem to be counter-intuitive within the context of the development of the EU.

 

Let me say it like this ...

In the EU there are quite a few problems that have to be solved. The question is just "how?" ...
Macron is someone of the sort who wants to install a new institution or organization, etc. to solve this problem for every problem he has located. Some things sound OK, but for others Merkel sees it differently and says "no".

In principle, forced marriage is too much and is going to far for me as a long-term goal for a kind of "United States of Europe". Europe is made up of countries and cultures that are hundreds of years and more old, speak their own languages, and you can not just build a new state out of them!
n addition, there are also very practical things such as the different tax, social and labor law systems, which are sometimes violently different. For example, if ... an accountant earns exactly the same work in the UK £ 35,000 a year, France £ 32,000, Germany £ 40,000, Finland £ 50,000, Italy £ 25,000 and in Poland and the Czech Republic only £ 14,000 ... then these and many other things like cost of living have to be eliminated as differences ... mostly eleminated ... and this means also these issues which cause these differences too, like different taxes on wages, goods and services etc.

BUT ... no one wants to touch these topics and so things will be done in the end where step 5 is done before step 1! That can not work!
Or take the Euro ... in itself I was and still be skeptical, but I acknowledge the clear benefits meanwhile and no longer demand the Deutsche Mark back etc. But the 2008 crisis has shown the inadequacy of birth, which is to this day not completely resolved. If you have a common currency for all, then you also need a powerful central bank that has the same, politics-independent power and rights as the Fed in the US! The Americans had to learn that 100 years ago in a crisis of that time ... but then we make the same mistake again for 100 years! This included the fact that bankrupt and wasteful states like Greece, which could never meet the maximum deficit target in the long term, but wanted to join in, suddenly had a great state budget ... but where everyone knew that this is a lie, only no one from politics wanted to know and the ECB had no power to take action against it!

These are my reviews and he EU ... but that's why I do not want an exit. No ...
The EU single market with its duty free trade is damn good and fair for everyone. And that it is fair and remains, or even works, there is the EU Commission and this then also requires the power and the rights, same rules, regulations and the like to introduce, enforce and monitor ... including penalties, if someone does not stick to it, etc.!
And it also means that the EU is outwardly as a whole, a community and concludes trade agreements, as JEFTA recently with Japan! The remaining EU bodies, and thus the EU member states, continue to be fully involved and not incapacitated, including by the EU Council and other EU institutions!
Of course, they have also given a bit of sovereignty, but otherwise it does not work, otherwise open back doors are opened without end, nobody wants!
And that includes the free movement of EU citizens, which is the same for all members ... but the British suddenly does not fit, although about 1.5 million Britons also benefit!