Brexit: May facing constitutional crisis

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by cerberus, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Dec 4, 2018
  2. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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  3. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What's the point of having a 'contempt of parliament' misdemeanor when those found guilty of it aren't sanctioned in any way? Look like another case of 'one law for us and another one for them'?
     
  4. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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  5. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Has anyone seen this Brexit Gollum parody.... it's brilliant... and damning for May

     
  6. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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    This mess could create a major crisis..
     
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  7. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I couldn't help but notice there were considerably more flag-waving Brussels-hired stooges outside parliament yesterday evening while the debate was in progress, all shouting nonsensical mantras for the sole purpose of drowning out the BBC interviews which were taking place yards away on College Green. The odious Tusk really is pulling out all the stops on this one, and using EU taxpayers money to fund it.
     
  8. MiaBleu

    MiaBleu Well-Known Member

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  9. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    IMO there will not be a second referendum - there is no will from the government for one.

    If there is a referendum then the choice will be between two different versions of Brexit, remaining in the EU will not be an option (even though, with 48% support at the time of the referendum, it is almost certainly the most popular single position - given that no one version of Brexit can seem to get anything like majority support).

    I also thing that it's unlikely that significant numbers of people who chose Brexit will change the way they vote. It's possible that some won't bother to turn out but then again the same is almost certainly true of the Remain camp as well. I think that what Remoaners like me have to accept is that the vast majority of Leavers think that the UK will be far better off post-Brexit and even if we are not, any price is a price worth paying to be free of the shackles of EU oppression.
     
  10. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    She's going to say later this morning, and ignoring her No 10 wonks who've recommended another referendum 'New EU referendum would break faith with Britons'

    'break faith'? There'd be rioting in the streets, Missus!


    There won't be. I emailed to my constituency MP the elephant in the room question 'And supposing there's a Leave result again - what then?' He has since changed 'another referendum' to 'calling for a consensus' - result, or what? :cool:

    A bit more than that . . . there'll be riots in the streets. Even the dumbed-down Brits aren't that bovine yet, to not realise that democracy had become a dead duck, and that's whether they were Leavers or Remainers.

    There is now only one way to extract ourselves from this breath-taking imbroglio of confusion and indecision, and that's to walk away, and before this day is out.
     
  11. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree, walking away is the way to address this. IMO there are two versions of walking away:
    • The Hard Brexit version - with all that represents in terms of likely economic turmoil.
    • Knocking Brexit on the head - with all that represents in terms of likely political turmoil
    I know that enthusiastic Brexiteers insist that any economic downturn will be:
    • Minor
    • Very short term
    • More than worthwhile when the benefits are considered
    I'm not sure that they aren't underestimating the likely issues and overplaying the likely gains. It's tempting to say that any loss in business with the EU will be more than offset by gains in business with the rest of the world but I'm not sure that's true because:
    • Most of the rest of the world can't afford to buy what we're selling in any great quantity
    • Geographical closeness is another major factor. People on the other side of the world are more likely to buy from a local country
    • It's not clear to me how the UK has been significantly disadvantaged bu EU membership and/or how we will suddenly become so much more competitive
    That said, IMO a Hard Brexit is now almost inevitable so here's hoping that the likes of Farage, Rees-Mogg and cerberus' rosy predictions really do come to pass because the general consensus view from the "experts" is very, very bleak.
     
  12. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's more than trading conditions, it's about sovereignty too, and being told what we can and can't do by a bunch of un-elected foreigners who are not only un-elected, but not very smart either. Our government should take into account possible adverse consequences for small businesses and subsidise them until things settle down. That's what I'd do if I were PM. And how often have these (I note your inverted commas, TD) experts turned out to have been wrong? Answer: if they're government experts, many times. For instance, I see that HS2 is way behind schedule and well over budget as per effing usual with government projects, and greedy opportunistic contractors making hay while the sun shines.
     
  13. The Don

    The Don Well-Known Member

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    Ah, the twin myths of the democracy deficit and loss of sovereignty...

    Any international treaty results in a loss of sovereignty for the countries involved. Unless the UK is going to isolate itself entirely - not a reasonable approach - we're going to be constrained. IMO the question is whether bilateral agreements between the UK and other countries will be argued from a position of more strength being a standalone country or part of the largest trading bloc on Earth.
     
  14. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well that's 'perceptions' for you? Useless politicians are bad enough for ****ing everything up, but useless bureaucrats are even worse at it, especially those who have no interest in the country/countries over which they rule. As is said - it ain't a perfect world. Also, the EU member states are soon going to be in trouble, because there's a lot of unrest in them . . . which is of course being kept very quiet . . . and the **** is gonna hit the fan very soon. Things can only get better?? lol
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018

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