Bringing Pets to Public Places

Discussion in 'Animals & Pets' started by Collateral Damage, Mar 22, 2019.

  1. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,410
    Likes Received:
    3,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Let me start with I'm not allergic to dogs or other animals, to the best of my knowledge. I have cats, but in the past I've had dogs too.

    My question, or issue of you will, is unless the animal is truly a Service Animal, fully trained and certified, why on this green earth do you think you have a right to bring that animal out in public (other than an open space such as a park) and inflict it on other people?

    Some stores 'welcome' pets, and if they aren't a pet store, where it would be enter at your own risk, I do not enjoy meeting your dog in Lowes when I am trying to purchase goods for home repairs, or in Home Depot while I am hunting down a particular item.

    I don't dislike dogs, but having been bitten twice by 'sweet and lovable' dogs, I am highly restrained around them, and that includes the invasion of my space in public places. I would never consider bringing a pet to a place where people would be forced to encounter them. Inflicting my pointless joy at having my animal coo'ed over by strangers, and meanwhile scaring or making other people highly uncomfortable while they try to complete their mission.

    Please, stop and think about what you are doing next time you are going to run that errand some place that 'permits' animals.

    /rant
     
    Blaster3 likes this.
  2. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    20,713
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Good rant. I volunteer at my local Humane Society shelter and I work with problem dogs. It is a "no-kill shelter" but some dogs cannot be placed with families because the shelter cannot take the risk if the dog has problems making it a potential threat. So I work with them to socialize them. I work with fearful dogs, dogs with food aggression, dog aggression, and child aggression. I have found that ALL forms of aggression have their basis in fear, -fear of people, fear of children, fear of having their food taken away, and fear of other dogs. Of course there is also prey drive that cause some dogs to attack cats, etc.

    What I want to say is that because I evaluate each dog, "read" its disposition, and show them respect, I've never been bitten. We had a pitbull that would rush the kennel door and snarl and bark a very threatening, aggressive bark and no one would adopt her, nor could we allow anyone to. So after watching her behavior for a while, I decided what I needed to do was to go into her kennel with her. Within 15 minutes she was licking my face and showing joy to have me with her. I admit she was a unique case, but then all cases are unique.

    My point is that everyone who is ever around any dog would do well to volunteer at a shelter that runs play groups. That means they are sincerely interested in helping dogs that have been rejected, and those are places where the most can be learned, but it takes showing up for a couple of hours at least twice a week for 6 months or more to get to where you can "read" a dog by watching it. And once you do, you will be able to go into Lowe's and be comfortable around a dog, because you will know what to do and not do in each unique case in order to be safe and have a great dog experience. I LOVE meeting new dogs!
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2019
    jay runner, vman12, Blaster3 and 2 others like this.
  3. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,410
    Likes Received:
    3,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I can appreciate your position, and what you are doing to socialize dogs. I can interact well with dogs I am acquainted with, so that isn't the problem so much as those people who do not take into consideration that other people (other than me) may be allergic, have fears, or just are not fond of them. When I'm on a mission to get something at Lowe's or some such store, I should not have to go out of my way to find an aisle that doesn't have a dog straining at their leash to happily greet their latest pet-n-scratch friend, or wait until the aisle is cleared so I can find what I need without being crowded by a dog the size of a small horse.

    It is, IMO, a courtesy to other people to leave the dog at home. Not everyone loves, or has time to interact with a dog.
     
    Blaster3 likes this.
  4. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,303
    Likes Received:
    4,334
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Complain to Lowe's if you don't like that. I really don't have a problem with that at Lowes or someplace like that.I get irritated at the grocery store where I see all these faux service animals crawling all over the carts. I'm all for real service animals that have been trained. I'm totally against these support/comfort dogs which are for the most part untrained pets.
     
    Collateral Damage likes this.
  5. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    20,713
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It is illegal to put a service dog vest on any dog that hasn't been trained and tested to comply with requirements, and they are STRICT! So I'm sorry but I really doubt you've ever seen a "faux service animal", let alone seeing them "crawling all over the carts". I notice animals and I've never seen what you described.
     
  6. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    6,015
    Likes Received:
    5,268
    Trophy Points:
    113
    there are instances of people that 'say' their pet is a service animal and store managers allow them in, even though they're not wearing a service vest...

    animals of any kind do not belong in a supermarket, those peeps that need one, should order their goods online & have them delivered...

    perhaps uwe ludwig horn should take his white tigers to the market, afterall, pets are pets...
     
    Collateral Damage likes this.
  7. perdidochas

    perdidochas Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    27,303
    Likes Received:
    4,334
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I have seen dogs with vests on sitting in a shopping cart (yes, crawling all over is an exaggeration). The vests may not actually be the same as service dog vests, but they are very similar. I consider these "support" dogs to be faux service animals, meaning that they are dressed up with vests/harnesses to look like service animals, but are not. Also, you have no idea what I have seen or I haven't. Claim it's not a widespread thing, but don't tell me I didn't see what I saw. At least locally, it's becoming something that is not uncommon.

    Also, please quote me the laws that require service dog training before the dog wears a service dog vests. Federal or Florida are the only ones that would effect what I see.

    Per ada.gov, I don't see any federal regulations about service dog vests or even service dog training.


    https://www.ada.gov/regs2010/service_animal_qa.html
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
    Collateral Damage and Blaster3 like this.
  8. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    20,713
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    "There are criminal penalties for falsely claiming a pet as a service animal. These penalties can range from a small fine, to one over $1,000 or a few days in jail up to a year in jail, depending on how the offense is committed and where. In some cases, the dog is confiscated and the owner may have a lengthy court battle to get the dog back."

    "There is no legitimate service dog certification or registration in the United States. Some programs will certify the dogs they train and test, and some do not. Those certificates are the only ones that actually mean anything, and they only mean anything if you have to go to court and prove your dog is trained. They are not required, they are merely useful documentation for the dog's training, which could be substantiated by other means. You don't need them for public access, or housing, or flying, or anything else."
    http://www.servicedogcentral.org/content/node/566

    I think you will find this helpful too: https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/vest-for-service-dog/
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
    Blaster3 likes this.
  9. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2012
    Messages:
    7,135
    Likes Received:
    594
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    A dog only needs training to help with a disability or condition this can be privately or formally. But there should be Federal Certification with ID, tags and a microchip implant to allow verification. And ban 'comfort dogs and other animals' as a thing.
     
    Blaster3 and Collateral Damage like this.
  10. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,410
    Likes Received:
    3,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    As a general statement, the dogs I have encountered in places like Lowe's, are not service animals. They do not wear vests, and while they may be well behaved generally, they still can pose an issue for people like me who are not comfortable around unknown animals.

    There is no need for these animals to be there. Just because someone views their pet as 'family', which I do with my cat(s), does not mean I have the right to bring them any place I want.

    So for those who believe they should be able to bring their non-service dog to a place like Lowe's, how about I bring my cat(s)?

    Oh, and by the way, comfort animals or emotional support animals are not 'service animals', IMO.
     
    Blaster3 likes this.
  11. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    6,015
    Likes Received:
    5,268
    Trophy Points:
    113
    how would one know if that animal had it's shots? fleas? or other malfeasance?

    people who bring them to public places (other than a dog park) are rude, inconsiderate & in my opinion criminal...

    edit: where are the cat parks? there aren't any, why? because cat caregivers are respectful & considerate, unlike dog owners whom allow their beasts to defecate on other people's property...
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
    Collateral Damage likes this.
  12. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2016
    Messages:
    25,192
    Likes Received:
    9,232
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The only way to keep non-service pets out of the stores is to complain vigorously and every time you see one to customer service.

    I saw management throw a bitterly posting woman and her dog out just the other day in a Smith's here.

    Many of the businesses have put up "only service-identified pets allowed in store. We will remove all others."

    The best way is to call the Animal Control Officer in the area and have the pet confiscated.
     
  13. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,410
    Likes Received:
    3,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    OK, well, complaining to Customer Service I can do. I don't want the animal to be confiscated, causing the animal undue stress. I wouldn't mind the owners being confiscated, lol.

    Thanks for responding.
     
    JakeStarkey and Blaster3 like this.
  14. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,410
    Likes Received:
    3,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I love all critters, great and small, but my personal preference is cats.

    Unfortunately, I have encountered disrespectful and inconsiderate pet owners of all sorts (not at Lowe's). My boy(s) only leave home under sever and extremely verbal protest, so cat parks would be bit of a no-go, lol. The visual of that idea is rather entertaining, though.
     
    JakeStarkey likes this.
  15. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,410
    Likes Received:
    3,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Just as a side note, I am a Type 1 diabetic, and one of my cats (recently departed :( ) used to react when my blood sugar would go low. Wake me up if I was sleeping, or pester me until I responded if I was awake. You can't train that into an animal, nor likely certify it.

    That said, I didn't take him places with me.
     
    JakeStarkey likes this.
  16. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2016
    Messages:
    13,784
    Likes Received:
    10,777
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don't suppose that it ever occurred to you that you were the problem? Dogs respond to what they feel are threats. Maybe it's just you.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  17. Collateral Damage

    Collateral Damage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    4,410
    Likes Received:
    3,516
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I believe I addressed this previously. I have been bitten twice, and therefore reticent about interacting with dogs I am not acquainted with.

    That said, I am not the only person who has issues with strange dogs, for whatever reason. No matter if it is, someone else with allergies, a fear of dogs and just a dislike of dogs, why should it even be an issue? They have no purpose in places like Lowe's.
     
  18. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2018
    Messages:
    4,611
    Likes Received:
    2,820
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Thank you for what you do. As an animal volunteer myself, I appreciate you spending your time helping what might have otherwise been hopeless creatures.

    I also appreciate the OP - not wanting to run into animals in your everyday life in places you won't expect to see them. The problem, however, is with the business. I think you should contact them directly and make your case to them. It is a legitimate case - likely shared by many - and should be heard.

    I love the idea of being able to take my pet everywhere with me - but if I enter a business that does not allow it, I follow the rules.
     
  19. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    20,713
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Wherever I've lived the county requires dogs to be kept current on their shots and require licensing to demonstrate it as the shots are a requirement for licensing.

    If a dog behaves in a dangerous, threatening, or destructive manner, the store's management will require they be removed. People know this and so such untrained and uncontrolled dogs rarely show up in stores. I have no memory of ever seeing a problem dog in Home Depot, Lowes, or other stores, and I can spot behavior problems "a mile away".

    There's an expression regarding the difficulty of herding cats for a reason. Also, cats are "solitary-philes" :smile: . Dogs are social ... they are pack animals. Cat parks are in that sense a contradiction.

    There are inconsiderate people in every category from child care, to mechanics to politics and dog ownership. Anyone who leaves their dog's "droppings" behind is inconsiderate. I guess we need LAWS to reduce it. I met one homeowner who said he sees people walk their dog by his house and when he sees the dog pooping, if the owner isn't pulling out a poop bag while the dog is pooping, he runs out with a plastic bag and hands it to them with a disapproving scowl. He said it works.
     
    Blaster3 likes this.
  20. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    20,713
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    They train service dogs to do that.
     
  21. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    20,713
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    True. We regularly see, at the shelter, dogs who love people and "beg" for attention, but who will suddenly and for no apparent reason react negatively to a particular person. Employees have said when that happens they watch that person carefully and given enough time and observation, they normally eventually see why the dog reacted that way. They say the dogs tip them off to who to trust and who to not trust.
     
    drluggit likes this.
  22. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    20,713
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I think you're out-numbered. Pets are becoming more and more respected and valued.
     
  23. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    6,015
    Likes Received:
    5,268
    Trophy Points:
    113
    if in a food/supermarket, report it to the health dept, aka 'board of health'. they'll issue a violation summons to the propriator.

    edit: take photos as proof
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
    JakeStarkey likes this.
  24. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2018
    Messages:
    6,015
    Likes Received:
    5,268
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @Kode ... yes there are plenty of respectful dog care takers, but i was refferring to dog 'owners', whom i catagorize differently than a caretaker/provider, these peeps 'own' designer pets for vanity, and they're are more & more of them these days & from my observations they all are inconsiderate morons...

    i take from your posts that you'd be in the 'care taker/provider' catagory & not what i refer to as an 'owner'... (no one can own another life, but some think they do)
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
    vman12 likes this.
  25. Kode

    Kode Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2016
    Messages:
    20,713
    Likes Received:
    4,912
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Well, we can't "own" a person because we can't buy a person, but we can buy dogs. In that sense we can own them of course. But this may answer your comment about my own "dog owner" category: every dog my wife and I have owned since our first pair in 1991 has been a "rescue dog". We currently have two chihuahuas that we adopted from the shelter (ages at adoption: 5 and 4) because potential adopters were overlooking them and they were remaining in kennels at the shelter "too long". We considered them to be "needy" and adopted them to make sure they were cared for in a caring home during their later years. A few years ago we adopted a Scottish Terrier with health issues who was 10 years old. He only live 4 more years but he was happy and a great pet, like all out other 8 rescues. We only had one that was a problem. He was believed, by specialists, to have suffered a stroke that made his behavior unpredictable. He would approach wagging his tail and apparently be peaceful and happy, and half the time when you would reach out to stroke him he would snarl and snap with a very quick attempt to bite. He bit my wife once and punctured her finger. When it was clear that he could not be saved/corrected and that he was a threat to others, he had to be euthanized. And he was clearly not a happy dog except for occasional and exceptional times.
     

Share This Page