Britain Is Bleeding

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by 6Gunner, Oct 27, 2017.

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  1. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    So much for the "effectiveness" of gun control...

    New numbers released by England’s Office for National Statistics are exposing the fallacy of gun control and crime reduction “across the pond.”

    The country, which has tightly restricted gun ownership since 1996, has seen double-digit rises in criminal activity across the board in 2017, including a 26 percent rise in knife crime (the highest since 2011), 27 percent rise in firearm crimes and 19 percent rise in overall violent crime.

    According to the Evening Standard, the city of London has seen a 47 percent rise in knife crimes, including “214 killings, 391 attempted murders, 438 rapes, 182 other sexual assaults, and 14,429 robberies. There were also more than 18,500 assaults involving an injury or intent to inflict harm with a blade and 2,816 threats to kill with a knife.”

    According to The Telegraph, latest figures confirm London is more dangerous than New York, noting New York and London have similar populations (about 8 million), but in London burglary is six times more likely, rape is three times more likely, and the risk of being robbed is 50 percent higher.

    https://www.americas1stfreedom.org/...t-crime-rises-in-england-despite-gun-control/
     
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  2. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    And this is the same country that won't report a murder in the stats unless they also achieve a conviction. So their numbers are likely still higher.
     
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  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    By UK standards, if the LV shooting happened in London, the government would not count the deaths as murders?
    Astonishing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
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  4. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The same thing happened in the UK in 1968. Right after the first round of "crime prevention gun laws" their crime and murder rate immediately increased the following year and kept going up.
     
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  5. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Nope. There is only one issue with British homicide data and that refers to the recording method, making longitudinal analysis more difficult. This, rather than when the homicide took place or when it goes to court, it is recorded in the homicide index when it is recorded as a crime. This can lead to more volatility in the data, such as the inclusion of all Shipman's murders in 2002-2003 statistics.
     
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  6. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    http://rboatright.blogspot.com/2013/03/comparing-england-or-uk-murder-rates.html

    Nice article with sourced links (some to parliament) explaining. They don't report until they have a collar. No collar? No report. Collar 15 years later? All the murders occurred when they dug up the bodies even though some have been dead for more than a decade. No no, they all died tuesday.
    How retarded is that?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
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  7. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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  8. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Why are you referencing sources that do not support your position? Do we know recorded crime is problematic for criminology? Of course. We know, for example, that the probability of reporting crime is reliant on the business cycle. Not surprisingly, the British Crime Survey is preferred for longitudinal analysis into violent crime.

    In addition, why did you refer to a blog rather than provide direct reference to the Office for National Statistics? The blog author writes "We count and report crimes based on initial data. The Brits count and report crimes based on the outcome of the investigation and trial. Yep, that says what I meant it to say". That is wrong. Homicide statistics are based on when the crime is reported. For a better understanding of trends you would have to take Shipman's 200+ victims and retrospectively change the data. The Homicide Index just doesn't do that. It therefore produces structural breaks in the data that merely reflect the impact of new information on serial murderers.
     
  9. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Compare London to a dozen other cities in America. Lol
     
  10. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    If you'd look at the link, and at what I wrote, you'd notice that the blog link contains within itself multiple links to official sources. Here are some of the links IN that blog post link, it uses these links as citations for the data it presents: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/116483/hosb0212.pdf
    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/95ap25.htm
    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...t_data/file/217475/coroners-bulletin-2011.pdf
    ^ Thta's just 3 of the links, there are of course more. Try READING. Ok bud?


    Each of the links in the post you cite illustrates a pervasive problem with crime reporting in the UK. Its been discussed in parliament ffs by MPs. This is a known issue.
     
  11. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    How about St. Louis, Chicago, Baltimore.....etc
     
  12. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    "35. Homicide statistics too vary widely. In some developing countries, the statistics are known to be far from complete. Figures for crimes labelled as homicide in various countries are simply not comparable. Since 1967, homicide figures for England and Wales have been adjusted to exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defence or otherwise. This reduces the apparent number of homicides by between 13 per cent and 15 per cent. The adjustment is made only in respect of figures shown in one part of the Annual Criminal Statistics. In another part relating to the use of firearms, no adjustment is made. A table of the number of homicides in which firearms were used in England and Wales will therefore differ according to which section of the annual statistics was used as its base. Similarly in statistics relating to the use of firearms, a homicide will be recorded where the firearm was used as a blunt instrument, but in the specific homicide statistics, that case will be shown under "blunt instrument"."
    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm199900/cmselect/cmhaff/95/95ap25.htm

    ^^ This was a link in that blog post you're too fancy to read first before picking at.
    It was presented before parliament by a Chief Inspector. Bolding mine. Its part of the known issue in reporting that exists in the UK.


    I encourage reading this link as well http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/hsq/h...mortality-statistics-in-england-and-wales.pdf
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2017
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  13. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    They're dangerous cities, no question.
    Do you understand that the topic of discussion here is "gun control doesn't make you safer, look see how dangerous London is with this data now released"?
     
  14. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    You want to compare London to a single city .....a city that also has strict gun control by the way. Compare England to a state and you would get more accurate data
     
  15. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    I use the ONS directly. You have presented an error, nothing more. The problem with the data is straight-forward: structural breaks occur purely due to data collection methods. Of course I would never bother undertaking a longitudinal analysis into murder (e.g. there's too much noise created by spree events when figures are relatively low). I'd focus on the BCS. Now if you can refer to one criminology peer reviewed publication that, using BCS data, finds gun control has been a statistically significant factor in violent crime rates that would be useful (Hint: there isn't one!)
     
  16. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    What on earth are you on about? I've done no such thing, I've simply commented on the reporting issues the UK crime stats have and the OP which is about crime stats in the UK...... You're the one bringing in american cities there chief.
     
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  17. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    Well that's lovely, I'm quoting a chief inspector before parliament explaining a goodly part of the issue.
    I've provided links to more facts about the issues with reporting in the UK.

    I haven't made a claim otherwise. Do you have reading comprehension problems?
     
  18. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    The comparasion is invalid and ridiculous
     
  19. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    You're the only one making comparisons, why don't you engage in this stirring discussion with yourself?
     
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  20. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Uh......the op is a comparasion between two cities.
     
  21. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Proof ?

    Nobody compared London to any U.S. City except you.
    Yes, You.
     
  22. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    A tale of two cities ?
     
  23. Reality

    Reality Well-Known Member

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    And I'm simply commenting on the reporting problem the UK has.
     
  24. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    It is a pointless comparasion
     
  25. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    you mean Democrat party run cities, that often have strict gun control, but are cesspools of gang gun violence?
     
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