Britain Is Bleeding

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by 6Gunner, Oct 27, 2017.

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  1. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Absolute nonsense. How do you think other developed countries manage ?
     
  2. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I see you don't understand what is happening in your own country, nor did you understand what I wrote.

    Let me explain.

    There were 89 Hillsborough murders committed in 1989. However, they were not counted as homicides in 1989. Or 1990. They were finally counted as homicides in 2017 as they obtained a conviction.

    In the UK, a dead body that isn't a suicide or an accident isn't counted as a homicide until someone is found guilty of the crime.

    Your countries method of counting homicides is intentionally obtuse.
     
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  3. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Until you acknowledge the thing that primarily facilitates that culture of violence rather than go into total denial about it then it will continue
     
  4. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Are all the other developed countries hiding their murders too in an international conspiracy to make you look bad then ? :roll:

    https://www.statista.com/chart/3848/the-us-murder-rate-compared-to-other-countries/



    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  5. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. Even your own source shows you who is committing the violence in the US.

    As the other countries in Europe get to experience the joys of increasing minority violence you'll find out.

    Have you noticed the OP and your increasing violence? Enjoy the ride by being defenseless to it.

    Don't worry though, the important people in your country have guns to protect themselves.
     
  6. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Our 'increasing violence' is still but a shadow of yours. Having lived in the US for a couple of years I can certainly vouch for that
     
  7. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah for now, don't worry, all those people you have coming in will fix that.

    Actually as far as crime goes, you have a fraction of our population and rank second in the world (behind the US) in total crimes.

    Good luck protecting yourselves with your butter knives.

    At least your politicians have guns to stay safe.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  8. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    And your nation can be happy with slaughtering one another in the tens of thousands each year imagining that by having the facility to do it somehow makes you free

    Good luck with that :fingerscrossed:
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  9. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It's only one ten thousand but the thugs in Chicago, Baltimore, St Louis and other bastions of liberal thought appreciate the sentiment.
     
  10. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You're coming across like a conspiracy theorist. Is that deliberate?
     
  11. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    So tell us then,
    With your "couple of years" vast experience, having lived those many years in the United States of America,
    What is the makeup of crime in the U.S. ?

    Do tell, thrill us with your acumen.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  12. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Don't forget to follow up with a "I heard that there is a housewife in Omaha who has owned a gun all her life without killing anything. This proves our position" comment!
     
  13. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Extremely low quality comment, compared with the price of peanuts in Japan.

    Considering my extensive work with firearms as a firearms Instructor and range officer, your housewife comment only serves to prove your comment quality is par with a fortune cookie.
     
  14. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Peanuts for you!

    It does describe neatly how you don't give a rats when pro-gunners give ludicrous comments (alien to any rational application of evidence). Indeed, you celebrate them!
     
  15. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Except for the simple fact that firearms do not facilitate the culture of violence. There is no proof of such. Rather there is proof to the contrary when it is shown that areas with high concentrations of legally owned firearms do not experience a corresponding high level of violence.
     
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  16. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    Prove such then.

    Lower population densities, differing cultures, stronger and more authoritative governments, fewer legal protections held by the people, more homogeneous cultures, geographic isolation, greater respect for law and order, firearm levels well under five percent of what the united states is estimated at having.
     
  17. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    You also know that the empirical evidence cannot reject the 'more guns=more crime' hypothesis. Why is that? Are you, by chance, rabbiting opinion and nothing more?
     
  18. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Sorry, but right here is the flaw in your philosophy, as I see it.

    "Freedom from" is a desire to be coddled and provided for. To abdicate one's own freedom and liberty in the name of being protected and directed and, ultimately, to be enslaved.

    I prefer the idea of "Freedom to". Freedom to make my own choices and freedom to take responsibility for myself. Freedom to live my life as I choose and not to have my life dictated to me by someone else. Yes, that freedom entails some risk; but it is a risk I embrace freely in the name of living where I am truly free.
     
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  19. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Where did you live, on Piedmont street in Worcester, Massachusetts? That’d explain your experience :)
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    America has always had 'freedom from' in gun control. It just ranged on how racist it is and how much it is corrupted by pressure group influence on politician
     
  21. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Ah, yes. The inevitable "racism" ploy. Sorry, Reiver, but I'm not impressed. And you obviously miss the point of "freedom from"; but it's clearly a concept beyond you, or at least it frightens the pudding out of you to contemplate it.

    There are many places in the U.S. where crime and violence is low; even on a par with gun control "utopias" like the UK, but where everyone is armed. I live in a rural community where every house has at least a shotgun in it and where most of the populace is armed in one form or other, police response is often far away... and our rates of violent crime are vanishingly small.

    Like it or not, but the lion's share of the homicides people like you wail and beat your breast about take place in geographically small, highly urbanized areas - generally with strict gun control - and if those areas were eliminated from the tally our homicide rates as a whole would be a fraction of what they are now; not dissimilar to Canada's.

    In the end, if people take responsibility for themselves they are safer, more self-sufficient, and more free. The only people who don't get that are the sheep who bleat for authoritarian control over their lives, because true freedom scares the crap out of them.
     
  22. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Super, I wasn't trying to impress. That was just a reference to the history of gun control, as you well know.

    Again you ignore the reality of gun control. It was always 'freedom from' (e.g. those that didn't support the revolution).

    You bore me here. We know that guns are only just one of the many factors that impact on violence. Given you know that, why do you pretend otherwise?

    I don't like any homicides. Your choice of vocab is unfortunate. This is of course a public safety issue. Basically personal preference for guns increases the probability of someone else being a victim. Rational people acknowledge that. Pro-gunners typically don't. Many of them struggle with logic, as ideology dominates their thought patterns.

    In the end, we know that the 'more guns=more crime' isn't rejected. In the end we know that you ignore the evidence as it is inconvenient. That is why your position is so boring.
     
  23. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    And gun control's racist roots are part of why the concept offends me so deeply.

    No; it is you who ignore the reality of gun control, not me. But after watching you dodge and rationalize it with others I see no further point in correcting you.

    Oh, do I bore you? Heavens me, you have no idea how mortified I am (that's sarcasm, just in case you missed it). You say we need gun control, ignoring the obvious fact that gun control centers in this country tend to suffer from high crime and violence rates. The factors other than guns that impact violence seem to be the far more important factors; but our political leaders don't have the courage to address them, so they go for the simplistic "see, we're doing something!" tactics like gun control... tactics that tend to undermine and diminish freedom and liberty. You have no idea what it is to be bored by someone's self-serving nonsense until you deal with a gun control advocate.

    I don't like any homicides either, and my "choice of vocab" is purposeful. What you claim is "rational" is actually "rationizing". You don't like people owning guns, so you think any "rational" person would think as you do. Well, sorry, I've seen the reality of crime and violence and I can tell you that you ain't got a clue. Talk about being blinded by ideology!

    And here we see why you are so boring. There's an old saying about "you got lies, then you got damned lies, and then you got statistics", and you are so very fond of your statistics, aren't you?
     
  24. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    But you want to change one disgrace with another don't you? You want to deny folk rational gun control provision

    It amuses me that you folk go with this drivel. No one here has referred to the evidence (correctly!) more than me. I've also tried to help you fellows along (giving you sources and key researchers). Despite that, you show zero respect as you have nothing but ideological limitation. Shame on you!

    Good point!
     
  25. flogger

    flogger Well-Known Member

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    Hunstsville Alabama in 88 & 89
     
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