"Britain sends £13.4billion of taxpayers’ money overseas in aid each year."

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by cerberus, Feb 9, 2018.

  1. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, w
    Not accusing of whining and moaning.

    Just accusing you of a lack of knowledge of the Express cheekily whining people up.

    All the newspaper mention is, " the UK is obliged to spend at least 0.7 per cent of national income abroad each year". What the newspaper failed to mention was that EU members have to spend/send a % of GDP off to countries as foreign aid. Yes, it runs in billions, has always done so and it's a condition of being in the EU.

    You got it, Brexit means we can scrap or reduce it at our pleasure.

    So you can calm down now.
     
  2. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Banned

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    Don't feel like getting a job?
    Don't mind living in a tower block paid for by your local council?
    Don't worry!

    You're in luck.
    No matter how useless you are, the UK tax payer will feed and house you.
    This is Socialism, and if you agree with me, has to end.

    I'm not saying stop helping the needy, I'm saying, helping the people who don't need help robs them the pride of doing it themselves.
     
  3. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well that's precisely why I'm 'whining and moaning'? DUH! :wall:
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2018
  4. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ok.

    Hopefully less will be spent after Brexit. Charity begins at home.

    Foreign aid is taking money off those who can't afford it and give it to those where their governments keep it and live in luxury.
     
  5. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Same as domestic aid then.
     
  6. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    ExACTly, Nonnie. I couldn't've put it better myself.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  7. JohnConstantine

    JohnConstantine Active Member

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    This isn't an argument for uncontrolled migration which I believe to be totally silly and unfair to both parties.

    But people in the UK who bitch about the NHS make me laugh. We REALLY need to grow up and start aiming our criticisms at ourselves. We could fix the NHS in an instant by consuming less burgers, chips, cigarettes and beer. But we won't, we'll just keep screaming for more funding like babies. Oh well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
    Nonnie and cerberus like this.
  8. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, they obviously have a death wish? Well I hope it's granted quickly, then we won't have to support them with our taxes for so long!
     
  9. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When systems and services are brought out, they're designed and work at that moment in time. As time passes, these systems and services need to change, to amend, update.

    Some are updated, the likes of the NHS hasn't, hence why it struggles. We pay for the NHS to treat us, not to treat migrants and health tourists. Also, in general, obesity, drink, cigs and and older population are straining the NHS.

    A typical consultant appointment will cost between £100 and £250, depending on where you live and the nature of the consultation. If you miss it, you should receive am invoice. You can't book another appointment if you have an outstanding invoice. If you die because you didn't get seen and you owed for an appointment, tough.
     
  10. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Typically systems and services are bought out when they are failing.
    They are dysfunctional at the point of purchase.

    The banks. The railways. The coal mines. The car manufacturers.

    Or, in private sector buy outs, any listed company that's stock value has become too weak or one that has yet to become established.

    The NHS doesn't struggle at all. It's awash with money.
    The NHS operates on the principle of the squeakiest wheel gets the most oil.

    I pay for the NHS, but I don't use. I am happy to elect my share to go towards a migrant in my place. If I happen to like said migrant.
    You pay your own share, so you don't need mine.
    I don't think the patients are the core expense at the NHS. Nor the drugs nor the hospitals. I think the staff are.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  11. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Small fry stuff, so why mention it?

    Right wing grunt alien to the purpose, and success, of the NHS. Folk aren't receiving consultations in the manner that they should, because of lack of investment and consultants spending too much of their effort in private 'enterprise'. I know of folk of course who haven't been able to get on to the waiting list to see a consultant as they can't even see a feckin GP.

    What right-wingers are allowing to happen to our NHS is contemptible.
     
  12. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your 2nd point because of my 1st point. Nothing to do with investment, Labour supporters are ignorant on that point.

    Here's a bit of fact you might be lacking. When Blair got in, the countries books were nearly balanced, very little national debt. Then Blair and Chancellor Brown went mad with the countries finances and created the countries largest national debt. They also swelled the public sector with none jobs. The Tories, as history repeats itself, inherited an inept labour government debt. Then the banks collapsed so private debt was converted to national debt when the banks were bailed out. Then the mass public sector redundancy costs added to the national debt. What does all this debt mean? The interest paid on this debt is greater than the NHS wage bill. So if you want to double the NHS staff or their wages, simply wipe out the national debt. Don't tell me, socialist Labour want the lovely benefits.

    It takes 7 years to become a doctor so did Blair train up millions of doctors? If he was in for 12 years, there should be 5 years+ of doctors qualifying. Where are they? How did Labour invest in the NHS? That's right, PFI. So with using private investment, the NHS now rents back new hospitals at millions per year, effectively, mortgaging our children's future. Sadly, PFI was a Tory idea, implemented by Blair.

    A £Bn added to the debt to stay in government should have been refused, but, it would appear to be pocket change as to what Labour did.

    Do you know anyone in the NHS? I knew a guy on the admin side. Money is wasted left right a centre with internal politics etc.. He mentioned where thousands were being wasted weekly and that was just from one department. Multiply that by the number of hospitals. He recently resigned because of the sheer waste and internal politics.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
  13. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well that's 'bureaucracy' for you? The upper echelons of every public service in this country - especially the NHS and the Plod - have become infested with jobsworths, box-tickers, and so-called managers who spend their time doing nothing other than empire-building and arranging their precious 'meetings', and that's why the UK is irretrievably on the skids.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  14. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He wasn't allowed to change a lightbulb, the nominated electrician is based in Manchester and so they have to travel over a hundred miles to the hospital. So changing a bulb was a few hundred quid. And if another blew the next day!!

    They're not allowed to move a desk or unplug a computer. So they wait for the correct guy to unplug the computer and then find the porter to move the desk. Then get the first guy to come back to plug things back in. Staff can often wait a day or two for that to happen.

    He mentioned something about equipment to do his job. They spend hundreds on chairs etc.. for him he doesn't want but has to have. So it sits to one side collecting dust.

    He had mentioned quite a few daft things. Many many think departments and services are under funded, but they're not, especially the rail, the fraud on there with wages etc.. is unbelievable.
     
  15. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe it, and if it wasn't so ominous it'd be hilarious. 'Those whom the gods wish to destroy they first make mad.'
     
  16. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Imagine if they were as ignorant as the silly sods that actually believed austerity was rational.

    You'd get more economic facts from the Beano. You started with a myth on public debt and then crafted kack from that moment on.

    You seem to have a boner for Blair. Clearly maintaining Tory ideas (including backdoor privatisation) was cretinous. Thankfully we have a Labour Party now that doesn't pander to economic irrationality. It's the only hope left for the NHS, with the current shower of bob ratcheting up privatisation to guarantee profiteering opportunity for their fat cat mates.

    Do you know any of the evidence? For example, through the use of methodologies such as DEA, we know public health care systems are more efficient than private. Are there problems with NHS management systems? Of course. That goes back to the stupidity of Thatcherism, where they imposed the worst aspects of private managerial systems to the best aspects of public good provision. Never underestimate the sheer economic stupidity of the right wing!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  17. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ah, you're a staunch Labour support, enough said. National debt will go over your head.

    Do you even know what national debt is !!!!! Do you know how the national debt accumulated !!!!! Do you not know the difference between private sector debt and public sector debt? Did you not realise the government bailed the banks out by buying the bank private debt and so it became public sector (government) debt !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Amazing how Labour supporters always say they're a New Labour, pfffft to the old ones, but when you talk about the Tories, the Tories from Thatcher days are the same as today. That's the mentality of Labour, that's why debating with them is futile.

    Next you'll say privatisation is dreadful. So which utilities have Labour nationalised since Thatcher !!!

    You can't make this stuff up.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  18. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    A poor effort. You'll the one that deliberately misrepresented national debt levels.

    Calm down sonny! National debt isn't the same as your Aunt Mildred's credit card bill for her new handbag. You need to factor in macroeconomics. Imagine, for example, how higher GDP would be if we hadn't replaced Keynesian rationality with austerity nonsense.

    What is Toryism but organised spivvery? It is with regret that Bevan's quote is as valid today.

    Privatisation isn't dreadful if you want to profiteer from a natural monopoly. It isn't dreadful if you want public bailout protection. It isn't dreadful if you're after a post parliament lucrative position in a privatised company.
     
  19. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In other words 'cook the books'?
     
  20. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    What a dreary uneducated response. It's a reference to Keynesianism, obviously. Crikey even the Tories have a history of trying to understand the macroeconomy. Admittedly they bulls it up, listening to cretinous bobbins such as monetarism.
     
  21. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Labour (socialists) are incapable of managing the UK’s public finances. When Blair and Brown were in, indebtedness soared, a disgraceful record during a time of relatively fast growth. But I'm sure you know the rivalry between Blair and Brown.

    If your own finances were stretched at home, I don't think you would try to spend your way out of trouble.

    Pulling foreign aid can go towards reducing debt, so can cancelling the EU direct debit.
     
  22. Reiver

    Reiver Well-Known Member

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    Look at how debt has increased despite austerity. They didn't of course factor in how austerity harms economic activity and therefore tax returns.

    Comparing the macroeconomy with a home budget neatly advertises the lack of economic knowledge!

    More drivel. At this stage we should be increasing debt, through infrastructure investments. The economy is too reliant on consumerism and the housing market.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  23. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    you won't..they are national benefactors...they pay into the NHS and die quicker thus saving money in the long term. The majority of the issues with the NHS is that it is a dumping ground for the old folks... there is not enough facilities out of hospitals for the elderly.
     
  24. Nonnie

    Nonnie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    With that mentality, that's why Labour mess up public finances and always will. History just keeps on repeating. You can't fix stoopid.
     
  25. The Scotsman

    The Scotsman Well-Known Member

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    You would have to qualify what you mean in terms of infrastructure projects. If all you are saying is that we should build useless railways up and down the country then fine...waste cash. Personally I would like to see massive investements in Fussion projects for example like the Tokomak reseach at Culhan for example. But in principal yes the idea always has a degree of merit but tends to get lost in planning and practise.
     

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