I didn't know the UK and Spain were currently heating up about Gibraltar. Could Spain summarily invade Gibraltar? Could this be another Falklands war? https://www.yahoo.com/news/britain-defend-gibraltars-sovereignty-way-120340453.html Britain will go to war over Gibraltar's sovereignty, say senior Conservatives Tareq Haddad,International Business Times 12 hours ago lord-howard-makes-falklands-comparisons-over-gibraltar Britain will go to war to defend Gibraltar's sovereignty in its ongoing row over territorial claims with Spain, senior Conservatives have said. It follows lobbying from Spanish diplomats that placed the island's future as a British territory at stake in the European Union's negotiations with Britain over Brexit. Gibraltar – a British semi-enclave in southern Spain – is heavily reliant on Spain for its economy and voted overwhelmingly to remain in the European Union, however its residents strongly wish to remain part of the UK. Lord Howard, who served in the cabinets of Margaret Thatcher and John Major, told Sky News' Sophy Ridge on Sunday programme: "There is no question whatever that our government will stand by Gibraltar. Don't miss: Islamist terrorists get their own cell blocks in UK prisons Michael Fallon "Thirty-five years ago this week another woman prime minister sent a task force halfway across the world to defend the freedom of another small group of British people against another Spanish-speaking country. "I am absolutely certain our current prime minister will show the same resolve in standing by the people of Gibraltar." Appearing on the BBC's The Andrew Marr Show on Sunday (2 April), defence secretary Sir Michael Fallon said: "We are very clear that there cannot be a change in the status and sovereignty of Gibraltar unless the people of Gibraltar agree to it – and they don't. And they clearly don't so that's not going to happen. "Gibraltar's going to be involved in these negotiations and, again, the chief minister [Fabian Picardo] made that clear. He's going to be involved throughout and there will in the end, of course, be an agreement that fully respects the position of Gibraltar." When asked how far Britain is willing to go to protect to protect Gibraltar's interests, Fallon added: "We're going to look after Gibraltar. "Gibraltar is going to be protected all the way because the sovereignty of Gibraltar cannot be changed without the agreement of the people of Gibraltar and they've made it very clear they do not want to live under Spanish rule." Spain and the United Kingdom are both members of Nato – the alliance aimed at mutual protection of member states. A Nato spokesman told IBTimes UK that Howard's and Fallon's comments were a matter between the UK and Spain. In spite of Gibraltar's wishes, Spain has made territorial claims over Gibraltar for more than 300 years. Appearing on the same programme, Picardo said the prospect of Gibraltar ending up in shared sovereignty between the UK and Spain would be "awful". "It would strip us of who we are," he said. "It's that simple. Gibraltar would not be British if sovereignty should be shared with Spain. He added: "It would be absolutely awful. Our home would have been handed over to a party that has no claim to title. "Our day to day lives would not be the lives that would we live today. We would be living in somebody else's land." According to a Downing Street spokesperson, Prime Minister Theresa May called Picardo on Sunday to reiterate "our long-standing position that the UK remains steadfastly committed to our support for Gibraltar, its people and its economy". The spokesperson added: "The prime minister said we remain absolutely dedicated to working with Gibraltar for the best possible outcome on Brexit, and will continue to involve them fully in the process."
I could see Spain making a play, but I don't see it going very far. In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
Given the Falklands are also decidedly unchuffed at Brexit, we are stymied....cos we'd struggle to skirmish on one front, far less two, given the state of our military. Anyway, Gibraltar is in exactly the same position as Northern Ireland, as having a border with a country which is in the EU, and Ireland is getting a say in what happens with its border....so why should Spain not have exactly the same right? Spain isn't trying to annex or take over... though if Gibraltar ends up back in the same situation they were in re Spain before we joined the EU...or the UK doesn't get financial passporting.....they may well decide to jump ship...or go for independence. The rhetoric being produced by the media, some gung-ho politicians and thousands of FaceBook Brexiteers around this is somewhat reminiscent of the scare stories being bandied about during the last Scottish Independence referendum. I'm more inclined to the idea that the media is operating in distraction mode.... because the Government has something they want to sneak through Parliament without any of us noticing.
The EU 27 are going to make us suffer so much that we'll be left with no choice other than to make a hard Brexit, so we may as well do it now and save ourselves 2 years subscriptions to the vindictive charlatans. Even Spain alone can keep this 'Gibraltar' thing on the boil for a few years by refusing to drop its claim, and the other 26 are waiting in the wings to individually wreak their own vengeance on us. So much for 'our European partners'??
Spain tells UK not to lose its cool over Gibraltar in Brexit talks I haven't listened to the news yet today but seems it was Michael Howard up to a bit of stirring link at top of page. I read that he later said he was not really meaning it but at the same time Spain should be aware the UK are not people to be messed with or something similar which I cannot find. Looks like it is those pompous Tories again, believing threats are the best way to get compromise - not a good foundation for the future but very much the kind of foundation we would expect from a country moving towards ethnic nationalism. Just like Thatcher gave Argentina the idea they would not respond to an invasion of the Falklands, not mentioning Spain in Article 50 seems to have given a different impression than the Westminster Government was apparently intending.
I don't think they will play ball because if we got a good deal it might encourage others to drop out. Did I say 'might'? Make it 'undoubtedly will'!
Spain gets a veto anyway in the conditions of a Brexit deal so there was absolutely no need to specifically include a veto it in the draft. It was a provocation by the EU, part of the pre-negotiation to-and-fro. The Tories dealt with that appropriately to draw the definitive line. Consequently, EU is now backing off. It is a non-story but making the Tories out to be war mongers is ridiculous
Intelligent persons will see it as ridiculous but the less intelligent who outnumber them 500-1 won't.
Eh...it is Gibralta we are talking about. Threatening war if you don't want to be considered a war monger is ridiculous.
The art of this negotiation will be to make out publicly that we are losing when we are gaining. The EU needs to make out it is winning when they are losing. That's why we don't need opportunistic politicians all over this. Their job is to whinge a lot in the press about how badly our negotiation is going, but not to have any actual say in things.
There was no threat of war, there was assurance of robust defence. You can't be a war monger for acting reactively to protect existing boundaries of sovereignty. That is defence.
That is how you are choosing to read it. We do not think along the same lines. It is well known that the hard right of the Tories, who I guess you must support, has already got the EU responding in a similar tight way. I said there response was pompous and not helpful....and yes, threatening indirectly war - which is what it was seen to have been doing. English Imperialists so like to think themselves so big when they are only about 0.8% of the world. I also pointed out that their failure to mention Gibraltar in Article 50 was similar to Thatcher not making it clear to Argentina how Britian would react to an invasion from them. Not mentioning Gibraltar seemed, as did Thatcher to Argentina to give a wrong impression to Spain. I can see why Howard's mind made the connection.
I'm happy to be considered a war monger. Spain has no balls. No fear of losing Gib to them. The royal Navy doesn't even have to leave their home ports to sink the Spanish Navy and bombard or even annihilate their cities and military's alike. Don't even need to set sail. poor old Spain, so weak and so... in range. Bad way for the EU to begin negotiations so far. Threats of war and demands for more tribute. Not really much point continuing talks with them. Waste of time and money. No good faith is being offered us here.
What a ridiculous storm in a teacup - Howard made the comparison in the highly unlikely scenario that like Argentina militarily attacked the Falklands, Spain will likewise attack Gibraltar, in which case I dare say May would retaliate like Thatcher did.
Interesting article here https://www.commonspace.scot/articl...or-root-gibraltar-stramash-its-tax-haven-role “On the other hand having a location at its southern tip deliberately run as a tax haven with the intention of undermining its tax revenues must be deeply aggravating, and that’s a precisely fair summary of what the UK is permitting. Of course Spain is rightly upset about that. And the EU is for this reason right to support Spain.”
So much English nationalism here, lol. I am Spanish, so I will tell you what is this about. For the ones that do not know, Spain was vetoed in the ue (1986) by one and only one country : UK. Why? Because of Gibraltar. UK wanted (and he had it their way) special rights for Gibraltar. They wanted to to a Switzerland, and be a tax heaven so Spanish enterprises, people... Could avoid paying tax legally. Since then, Spain has tried unsuccessfully to eliminate this tax heaven that supposes a hole in the country finances. And now they obviously have the chance to pressurize the uk government to do that (by threatening to close borders, which is very bad for any enclave). The ue will obviously support spain, as there is no point on maintaining UK ue-privileges with a non eu UK. Anyone that was expecting something different, is quite naive and uninformed.
It is a bit sad, overall, if we think on the European project. On a more terrenal side, my brother works in London, and I hope the university will pay him the increase on tax. Our government is quite idiotic, so bear with them in the negotiations. PD: there is still Andorra, though, which is not part of the ue but still a tax reduced country. A lot of people pay taxes there (illegally): sportsmen, politics...
No one here has anything but love for Spain and the Spanish mate. So much love indeed. Hang with us we love you. Aspire to be more like you in a great number of ways. Like what we see, like who we meet, love it. Great style great humour. Awesome manners, so cultured and delightful to be with. Magnificent. A towering civilisation of the human race. Much to admire indeed. Foreigners was never an issue for us back in the EEC days. Back when it was just the few of us. It was a privilege to be invited into your club. It told us you felt a bond with us that we too feel with you. We recognise this bond still. Nothing but love for Spain in this country. It's just that we love war. And until someone finally nukes us, we're always going to be looking for the next one. Gib's a psycho trigger for us. Please don't pull it. Point us towards some of your enemies instead. A better direction for our energies.
That was a comment taken out of proportion. I'm not even sure why this was news. Hypothetically if Spain and Britain went to war then it would be to Spain's detriment but in reality this would never happen.
