CALIFORNIA, HERE I COME ... ?

Discussion in 'Economics & Trade' started by LafayetteBis, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When one thinks of the consequences of NOT obtaining a post-secondary degree, the process is almost staggering.

    A post-secondary degree is clearly the open-door to Much Higher Salaries. Which is why it worthwhile pursuing one - if you can afford to do so. And, THAT is the hitch!

    Anybody in a family with an annual income of around $25K a year is barely making a living - and that is (today) measured at 22% of All-American-Families (from Statista here).

    For a percentage breakdown of households (families) by income-level click here:

    Statistic: Number of households in the United States by household income in 2019 (in millions)

    Note in the above link that half the American family-population live at an income of less than $50K a year. So, what's a "livable income" in the US? From the Insider here (but note that you cannot open that site with the google browser you may be using - so see below*). From that site given, this quote:

    So, going to California ain't so great an idea as many people may think ... ?

    *Use the "Opera" browser here to do so.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2021
  2. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Of course, there is the fallacy of composition. It's something on the list of logical fallacies.

    Something that benefits the individual will not necessarily benefit a large collection of individuals in the same way that it benefited the individual.

    One example: If you run an electronic scam and cheat hundreds of thousands of people out of a couple of cents, you can get rich. Could this be a way to make everyone in that entire group of hundreds of thousands of people rich? No, of course not.
    Similarly, if having an educational credential benefits you because the job goes to you rather than someone else, then just because that was able to benefit you does not mean this strategy is going to be able to give an overall benefit to a large group of people in an economy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  3. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OF NO CONSEQUENTIAL IMPORTANCE IN THE COUNTRY

    There are damn few fallacies in economic analysis of trends in a nation. We have that down pat both in Europe and the US.

    We-the-economists know well the rip-off that is "going on". It is the fact that the manipulation of upper-income taxation that began with Reckless Ronnie RayGun has brought about massive wealth to a select minor component of American public-awareness.

    And, stoopidly, we do not care to get terribly upset about it ... because we are a nation of people with a highly manipulable mind-set. We actually think having "billionaires is goodness". Pray tell, how more monumentally stoopid can a developed country get with outrageously high Income-Unfairness?

    My Point: Income Unfairness has no major backing as a subject of key-importance in America ... !
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  5. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Wow, you certainly do like to bring up lots of meaty issues in each of your threads. Do you think that might be better to discuss in a separate thread?

    I don't see how we can really have an in-depth discussion in one thread when you keep bring up so many separate different very heavy issues that are each very complicated and controversial.

    Did it ever occur to you that maybe if you tried to stick with just one big topic, the resulting discussion could be more focused and effectual?
    You don't seem to be very good at focus. I've seen this in many of your past threads.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
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  6. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know what's funny? Democrats are all for higher taxation, until the ones working in the private sector start earning over $90,000 and wonder why so much of their money is being taken away.

    I've seen it. They start flipping out. They don't know what to think. It's like their brain is overloaded. They start worrying, shutdown, go into denial.
    It's almost like at that point they develop a split personality disorder.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    METHINKS

    Probably, but given the way this "debate forum" is run "subjects" come up for discussion in a variety of ways. Mostly, it's up to the reader to start the discussions as well as maintain their pertinence. Which means firstly that an adaptable "heading" article is necessary to be found and employed.

    Which means even further that often subject-discussions can be all over the place. Of course, what is (most often) worse are discussion forums that are pre-planned, outlined and "managed".

    Methinks ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  8. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, that's true, of course, but you are REALLY all over the place.


    You know, I don't know if this will help you, but what I usually do is, if I want to quickly bring up another topic, I'll keep it to only one sentence long and then post a link to another thread.

    I think sometimes you try to jam too much into your opening post.
    It's one thing to quickly bring up the existence of another idea, but it's another to start going on and on about it, which you sometimes do in your subsequent posts.

    If you want to treat these posts like a personal blog, fine, but it's not so conducive to a good discussion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2021
  9. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well the way "subjects" came up in this thread is that you started off with the subject of post secondary degrees, than switched to income inequality.

    I view these threads as a thesis or hypothesis; you start off making and supporting your argument, and then see where the different comments lead. You can't seem to wait for that and immediately derailed your own thread.

    That's interesting behavior.
     
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  10. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because there is no link whatsoever between the two?

    Oh, yes, there is!

    To each their own misguided interpretation of what is happening beneath their eyes.

    This is a wide-open Debate Forum, not a high-school exchange-of-opinion. You would do better to argue the facts and not personal suppositions ...
     
  11. joesnagg

    joesnagg Well-Known Member

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    Soooo....everybody who wants a degree should get one for free....and JUST where are all these wonderful, high paying jobs to accommodate an ever growing ARMY of degree holders going to miraculously appear from? I know, the thin air, like all pipe dreams.
     
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  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Argue facts on what subject? What will the topic be the next time you post?
     
  13. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    MANUFACTURING IN AMERICA HAS BECOME "OLD HAT"

    Why not? We are 746 million people in Europe and all have an access to moderately-priceD post-secondary education. Because said education is subventioned by state governments.

    And we are grateful! After all, We-the-sheeple pay Income Taxes for a reason, and the Primary Reason should be to assure a proper sustainment of our existence by means of working.

    And "work" today - and since the 1990s - has come to mean having a higher level of educational-attainment than just a High-School degree. Which in most higher-paying job-categories just aint good-enough anymore!

    There is also another major side-effect that is notable of postsecondary degree holders: They are smarter and more apt in the complex-jobs that are now current in most evolved economies ... !

    PS: Perhaps you haven't noticed but the Internet has brought with it a whole new way of interfacing both at work and in other economic functions of a nation! And this forum is just one example of that major change ... !

    Sorry, but that is genuinely old-hat. The internet has brought with it a fundamentally different and more complex working environment. Moreover, the work itself is greatly different in content.

    For proof of evolution over the past two decades since 1970 when it all began to change. See what happened by means of this chart below from here:
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2021
  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    OK well that's an interesting comment. Are you arguing that post secondary degree holders become smarter by virtue of getting a post secondary education or are smarter students self selecting to seek post secondary degrees?
     
  15. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you want to guarantee you can put food on the table acquire a skill which often pays more than college educated make.
     
  16. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Someone thinks a degree makes one smarter. Couldn’t be further from the truth. Getting a degree only means you could sit through classes and pass tests.
     
  17. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    OURS IS A "SERVICES ECONOMY"

    It's not a question of "smartness". It is a question of the will to improve one's outlook in life. (I frankly do not know how to measure "smartness". And I doubt anyone does. It is more "seen" than "defined".)

    A post-secondary education is an absolute necessity in the Services Industries that now employ most Americans. The breakdown between Services and Manufacturing is acute - 88%/12% in favor of Services. Which means what?

    That though Manufacturing has gone Very-High-Tech, as has most of "production" in the US. Yes, of course; we still make cars in the US - but that is only because the investment necessary to make them in Mexico is far too great to be even considered. (Given the retraining it would take of the laborers.)

    The Services Industry portion of the economy provides the highly dominant majority of work in the US nowadays. Services, by nature, require "know-how", which means being educated into a skill to perform work.

    Which does not mean that the Manufacturing-sector is populated by dummies! In fact, though I employ the breakdown into two parts of the economy, there are actually three parts. In the middle between Manufacturing and Services are people employed in a sector that have a leg in both. A lot of Manufacturing employs specific knowledge that comes about from the Services-sector.

    Admittedly, therefore, the breakdown between just the two sectors becomes increasingly difficult to define accurately, since both "overlap" one another.

    My Point: There is no longer a full difference between the two sectors. Ours has become, thus, almost fully a Services-Economy.

    What furthermore does that mean for we, the sheeple? Get off your buts and obtain a post-secondary diploma to find a good and well-paying job - that is get educated in a skill*... !

    *Yeah, OK, but
    which skill? The one for which you have a "talent" and that only you can find and no one else!
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2021
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well you clearly thought it was a question of "smartness" a few days ago.

    What changed?
     
  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It took a while but the "kids" finally will understand that to guaranty a bona-fide income (and thus living standard) that they need a post-secondary degree.

    What did not change is that Americans are still hooked on the DoD. Because they don't see that the high-cost of a postsecondary-degree in the US reduces the number who go for it.

    Which means the expertise getting into solid-jobs (requiring a postsecondary-degree) is reduced as well.

    As I never tire of saying - reduce the cost of a postsecondary degree and watch the economy boom gradually over the next ten years.

    If not, then just wait for the next downturn because that WILL happen! Whyzzat?

    Because those who don't have the postsecondary-degree are earning a salary at far-less than those with the degree; and those with the degree are insufficient to support the Demand for the entire economy. That reduced-Demand of the lower economic-class WILL happen if we do not alter quickly the "rules of the game" - meaning lower the cost of the postsecondary-degree thus allowing more of our people coming out of high-school to get the degree that provides the competence necessary for the higher-level jobs.

    Also, a fact that most economists acknowledge as key to sustaining an economy is that the higher the general Income-earned the more is both saved-and-spent - which is a significant economic booster ...

    *For instance - instead of buying a smaller car made in southeast Asia, smarter people (who can afford them) buy larger cars that are still made in America! (Yes, Americans also buy foreign imports!)
     
  20. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    OK so you can't or won't answer my question.
     
  21. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    I would prefer the people vs the Floridans. Half of this state is transitory or moved here from the north. It is the southern high school grade whom runs a resturant, brick layer, lawn biz, stucco, etc. that bring it down. Great business guys, make money, contribute, then wave their Trump flag because they see him as TELLING THE TRUTH.
    Same truths dems. told in the 1980s and they fought against it. Ironic to see one down here in an electrical union job, making good money and fights against imports. In the 80s, the same guy loved them...
    Politics is BS, the FED, and Banksters are screwing us big time
     
  22. Quadhole

    Quadhole Well-Known Member

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    Most understand this. Many do pay attention and learn, not all just sit there. Thru time, a degree represented you paid attention. Thus why corps. look for it...
     
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    [​IMG]
     
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  24. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    THE HEARTBEAT OF ANY REAL DEMOCRACY?

    i believe there is nothing more important to a nation (in this new century of ours) than a POST-SECONDARY EDUCATION.

    And the smarter you get, the more you vote! But, still, Uncle Sam's voter-turnout is no where near what it is in the European Union. Whyzat? Read this if you do not believe it! -
    Many Western Europeans think mandatory voting is important, but Americans are split

    Excerpt:
    Which makes for a very-large difference between to two main-body political parties in America!

    Not your problem, you might think? Oh, yes, it is! Democracy is manipulable if one allows manipulation to happen. One can be influenced Not-To-Vote especially amongst the lower-classes of voters who do not vote regularly!


    We may THINK idemocracy exists because we were taught it does in high-school. But, if you don't vote, then no - it does not really exist. Whyzzat?

    Because only voting is the actual manifestation of political-preference, which is the very heart of any Real Democracy ... !
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2021

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