California passes assisted suicide

Discussion in 'Civil Liberties' started by Doug_yvr, Sep 12, 2015.

  1. Sharpie

    Sharpie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think "death panel" is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to the decisions made by the providers to withhold treatment to the elderly, due to an opinion that they'd lived long enough. That's where the slippery slope comes in. http://www.forbes.com/sites/cjarlotta/2015/04/21/physicians-withdrawing-withholding-treatment-from-elderly-patients-say-its-not-ageism/#1e96946719e2
     
  2. Thehumankind

    Thehumankind Well-Known Member

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    Life will eventually end,
    and perhaps if life itself is not anymore fruitful and even breathing is already a struggle and excruciating pain would appear as a daily routine then it's quite justifiable to end up personal misery, BUT it's the same as in suicide similar with that unbearable tendencies.
     
  3. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How about classic style. Ref.: Socrates You gonna argue with classic Greece?

    I nominate Hillary Clinton, Jill Stein
    and Rachel Maddow for Assisted Suicide.

    :woot: Any seconds? :clapping:


    Moi :oldman:

    r > g


    lead_large.jpg
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
  4. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Um, you don't understand what the branches of government are? We are done here.
     
  5. Jack Links

    Jack Links Well-Known Member

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    Being a socialist state the next step would be death panel for those who need health care. Social justice warriors would then claim it is needed for younger 'immigrants' healthcare.
     
  6. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, the branches of government is a really tough concept.
    What are you getting at when you asked about the branches?
    The legislature can legislate what it wants to, and the executive can pass it. Further any dept can regulate at the direction of the executive. So what is your point? And if you try to get cute again, we really are done
     
  7. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Ah, so you do understand the three branches of government even if you can only name two out of three. Now tell us which one can change who has the ability to prescribe lethal drugs and you might earn a passing score on your civics quiz.
     
  8. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    ooooooooh boy, you really scooped me on that one. I don't think I could name all three.
     
  9. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    That was pretty clear from your post. No need to thank me, education is something I do to help.
     
  10. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    you gonna keep on avoiding the topic?
     
  11. Pollycy

    Pollycy Well-Known Member

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    In California? Legal suicide?! I think it's an EXCELLENT idea that I hope becomes very, very, very popular!

    Of interest to all our fun "Californicators" might be The Hemlock Society and "Final Exit"

    [​IMG]. "And there's no waiting in our special, speedy California Express Line!" :clapping:. :angel:
     
  12. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    The topic was which branch of government you think is going to allow some group other than doctors to provide medicines that will end life. You have yet to answer.
     
  13. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Lets see.
    The legislative branch legalized it. They could easily allow for state appointed agents to dispense for this purpose. The DEA under the dept of justice and the executive could easily accomodate.
    The courts could uphold all of this.

    What the (*)(*)(*)(*) is your point ?
     
  14. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    See below.
     
  15. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    State law regulates scope of practice issues and the legislature can redefine who can or can not prescribe controlled substances. In Oregon,normally MDs nurse practitioners, and physician assistants can prescribe controlled substances. But only MDs can do so under the Death with Dignity law because only MD's can certify the terminal diagnosis (it takes two of them) and only they can document this in the medical record. The process entails two oral requests, one written request, waiting periods, etc and finally the primary doctor must report it to the Oregon Health Department per the statute. The Oregon branch of the AMA is not only cooperating, it helped to write the statute in committee. All you have to do is go to the doctor and he will help find a second to consult/verify the process and help guide you through the hoops. You show up a second time after the waiting period , and you walk out with the prescription. Anyone can be your witness as long as they are not potential beneficiaries in you estate. Why is anyone trying to alter the scope of practice away from MD's anyway?
     
  16. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Ah, a new federal boondoggle is born....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Good question! See above!
     
  17. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    or one is modified.
     
  18. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    what does diagnosis have to do with prescription ? They are separate functions and can be handled separately.
    The state legislators that voted for the bill can grant themselves power to prescribe, after proper diagnosis, if they wish.
    They can grant the school janitor the power to prescribe in this instance, if they wish.
    It does not have to be a physician.
     
  19. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    They are separate functions but obviously very closely related and interconnected, especially when a prescription must be attached to a specific diagnoses as is the case for example with barbituates, amphetamines, opioids per federal law and AMA standards. All perscriptions/ and diet orders prescribed to Medicaid and Medicare patients must have a diagnosis connected in a physicians order, placed into a medical chart. Now it does not HAVE TO be so, but you have not explained why one would want a janitor or legislator to prescribe medications when a doctor is the expert in handling multiple diagnosis and medication interaction and symptom management. Most janitors might not connect a history of high blood pressure with a medication like ViVanse prescribed two years earlier for another diagnosis of adult onset ADHD listed in the medical record.

    Maybe you could explain why you want someone who knows nothing about the diagnosis listed in a medical record to be prescribing medication. What is the problem you are trying to fix? It better be one hell of problem to beat the one you are about to create when you separate a diagnosis function in medicine in one party from its resulting prescription in another.
     
  20. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    ...as the physician is supposed to treat the patient without harming (killing) him.
    A monkey can kill you.



    there is no management, only death.

    because the patient is being terminated not treated
     
  21. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    so it is only in this narrow instance you want to narrow the MD's scope of practice. You trust them to both diagnose and prescribe in all other instances but this one. Do you not trust doctors to prescribe these barbiturates consistent with the statute, or is this some ethical objection to the notion of physician assisted suicide?
     
  22. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

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    this is a good savings for the taxpayer, many of these people would not be able to be productive to the economy.

    liberals in california as well as conservative christians agree on this.
     
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  23. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    The doc diagnoses.
    Anybody can kill, that is not a medical skill.
     
  24. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    It is a medical skill to do it well and to do it in such a way as to reduce the chances of a bad, messy or unexpected outcome . In fact there appear to be some states that can't figure out how to do this killing thing effectively and painlessly. that is why they've had problems with the sedative and lethal injection combination.

    You seem to have a real problem telling me why you don't want doctors to prescribe this medication. I am getting cryptic answers, that are neither particularly clever or instructive Anyone who proposes that janitors and legislators do this instead of doctors must have a very good reason to prefer them prescribing barbiturates over doctors doing so. Spill.
     
  25. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    what does a physical skill have to do with prescription ?
    It's a low level skill.
     

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