Calling out the 47%-51% paynotax lie.

No, the poster of that has no clue what they are talking about.

The bottom 60th percentile is compromised of those individuals making between $0 to ~$50,000.
Those making less than $20,000 would be concidered to be in the bottom 20%.

Its really funny that our "minimum standard of living" @ $20,000 puts us in almost the top 10% of all income earners worldwide.

 

so your assertion is that 61% make less than $20,000 ?

 

You got that right.
People are stupid in general. In fact I here fools say all the time "I'll write it off in my taxes". Most idiots make under $60K per year, and most don't spend enough to write off anything because the standard deduction of $5150 is higher than the accumilation of what they are allowed to write off. These are the fools that pay someone to do ther taxes, and only have a 2 income or less household with no capital gains or retirement to account for.

After all most are to lazy to know where their money goes or how to do basic logic and math.

Fact is morons truly believe the wealthy make their money like they do, and get taxed like they do. Fact is, the real wellthy make their money on investments. Majority of their income is in capitalgains and stock options. Hence they only owe 15% on it. The ignorant fools realy think that people who make $150K plus a year don't have at least $1.5 million in investments stashed. If you work for 10 years and invest you know what I'm talking about.

Let's not forget that there are a lot of those who have 2 income families that make over $500k per year, and have assets well over $3 million and they can make as much on their investments than from their day job. And let's not forget inherrtence of these wealthy middle class.

If people can operate a computer, they should be able to do there own taxes so they can learn how the tax system works. When you do if for many years, you will know just what percent you are taxed, and what the wealthy are taxed.

 

How can giving money to people who spend all their money not be "inefficient allocation" of resources? You must not be rich.

 

If spending money by virtue of being spent, was an efficient allocation of resources, our economy wouldn't be in the crapper with 1.5 trillion in deficit spending.

Real growth comes from savings and investment.

 

HOW in the world does real growth come from savings. I come from an economic background and I will tell you that statement will get you laughed out of any economics class in the world, even in high school.

Saving money is the WORST thing for the economy. I'm not saying an individual shouldn't save money, but for the macro economy, it is disastrous.

And the funny thing is, you have no clue why!

 

<snip>



Stopped right "hear".

Delicious irony noted.

 

You come from a keynesian dogmantic background that confuses savings with hoarding and that has been completely discredited by real world metrics and only still lives on as an anachronism in academia and left wing circle jerks.

It's far better for the economy if people save and invest in both themselves and private industry than to redistribute that money to people who will just buy shiny trinkets made in China. It's doubly bad that that redistribution provides disincentives to productive behavior.

 

There are many low income people who get income tax refund checks that are higher than the amount they paid in as income. That is what this is referring to.

These people are paying federal taxes (i.e. social security). They are paying other taxes, but not federal income tax. It's a very specific statement.

 

I don't believe anyone suggested that 47-51% of the working class including those unemployed and/or on some sort of subsistence RE: SS etc...are tax cheats and/or evaders. The tax codes make them exempt, ergo, they pay no payroll/income taxes. However, they pay their share of any and all other taxes.

 

I agree it's far better for people to invest domestically and in private industry... but the reason savings is bad is purely mathematical. It has nothing to do with Keynes to prove why savings is bad for an economy. Just a little elementary school math can prove why.

 

I actually didn't say it would be that easy, another typical GOP lack of information and study statement. Simply put. the current GOP mantra is "I got mine, stay away from it", whereas the Democrats believe that by expanding the middle class we can create greater wealth, and if this includes expenditures now for future profit, so be it. What happened to the GOP Americans that used to believe in a great America with a great future?

 

You've gotten as bad with your "it's basic math" phrase as Landru is with the word "meme".

Knock it off.

 

Poor or not, you should still be obligated to contribute in order to enjoy the services provided by the government.

 

I'm starting to feel sorry for you Awryly. You entered into a discussion without a clue on what was being discussed and are making yourself look foolish because of it.

I will try to explain it to you. Don't worry, I will type really slow so that you can follow it easier:

What we are talking about is "FEDERAL INCOME TAX". This tax is ONLY the amount a person pays to the Federal Government based on their income. It is different from "PAYROLL TAX", which is the amount deducted from a workers paycheck to pay things like Social Security. Yes, the payroll tax still goes to the Federal Government, but it is not "FEDERAL INCOME TAX".

It is also different from "FEDERAL GAS TAX". This is taxes collected at the gas pumps. This money also goes to the Federal Government, but is not "FEDERAL INCOME TAX".

If you include ALL taxes that a person might pay in this country, then NO, there is no way a person could avoid paying some sort of tax. However, we are discussion only one specific tax....the "FEDERAL INCOME TAX".

 

Do you have anything from a reputable news source? Of the 3 sources you cited in your original post. One is an anonymous blog (real credible) and the other two are Soros funded (agenda driven).

crooksandliars.com

Registrant:
Domains by Proxy, Inc.

Registered through: GoDaddy.com, Inc. (http://www.godaddy.com)
Domain Name: CROOKSANDLIARS.COM

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/crooksandliars.com

Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

Soros and his foundations have had a hand in funding noteworthy leftist organizations. Since 1999, Soros's Open Society Institute (OSI) has given grants to Center for American Progress ($1.8 million), Center on Budget and Policy Priorities ($3.7 million)

http://conservapedia.com/George_Soros

The “Progressive Challenge” was a project which more than 100 leftist organizations co-sponsored and launched in 1997, in an effort to unite their activities and talking points under a “multi-issue progressive agenda.” Among these co-sponsors, which worked closely with the Congressional Progressive Caucus, were the following organizations: the 50 Years Is Enough Network, the AFL-CIO; Alliance for Democracy (Washington chapter); Americans for a Sustainable Economy; Americans for Democratic Action; Amnesty International; Brookings Institution; Campaign for America's Future; Campaign for Health Security; Campaign for New Priorities; Center for Defense Information; Catholic Charities; Center for Law and Social Policy; Center for Responsive Politics; Center for the Advancement of Public Policy; Center of Concern; Center on Budget and Policy Priorities; Child Welfare League; Children's Defense Fund; Citizens for Tax Justice;

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1303

 

I already knew that. And if you had been paying attention you would have known I knew that.

And if you bothered to read the OP, you would have known that the thread was about all taxes, not just the war taxes or the taxes levied to pay the tea ladies in Congress.

But, no. The argument had to be recast to decry the perfectly sensible idea that the less you earn, the less you should pay in tax, and the less you can afford to pay in - let's say - health insurance.

Did you know that 20% of Americans don't pay for private health insurance either? Mainly because they can't afford to?

Meanwhile, US corporations shift their cash to off-shore tax havens, employ legions of bean counters to avoid any taxes they haven't already avoided by the aforementioned tactic and, for good measure, avoid even payroll tax by shipping (their/your) jobs off to Asia.

Thus reducing their tax liabilities to the level of those of the people about which you complain.

 

I do not think, reading your OP, that you have the slightest idea of the argument being made...I have never heard anyone say that the 47% who most assuredly do not pay income taxes, are breaking nay laws or doing anything to evade the tax. We are saying that the system is broken when so many who do not contribute have so much say over the assets of those who do.

 

That must be the reason the OP put the word "INCOME" in the first sentence. However, you are correct, the OP didn't really specify, but once a person reads the OP, then it is pretty clear that they were mainly talking about FEDERAL INCOME TAX.....to discuss anything else would make his argument based on a fallacy, since the claim he is disputing is only made in regards to FEDERAL INCOME TAX.

That's funny, as I do not see any posts where anybody is saying that people that earn less should have to pay more in taxes then those that earn more.

And, what does health insurance have to to with this thread?

I fail to see your point as it regards to this thread. If you want to pursue your campaign against America and it's system, maybe you should start your own thread...I'm pretty sure you know how.

In the meantime, how about staying on topic, which is that 51% of Americans do not pay FEDERAL INCOME TAXES. If you have proof, supporting this claim, or the claim of the OP, I, for one, would be very interested in reading it.

 

I just don't get it... as one of the 49% that does pay taxes, why would I care about making someone who has much less than me pay taxes? I don't get why your fight is with those that make the least. Why not target people who actually have money and who have the ability to work the tax system with the thousands of tax loopholes.

It's not like the people who don't pay taxes are living the life of luxury. I have driven past couple poor neighborhoods in my life and I would never want their life or compare my life to theirs... especially where I would be so angry that they weren't paying an extra $1,000 in income taxes to the Govt. It's like you guys are jealous of them, lol. You must have some sad lives if you are jealous of poor people who make so little that they legally do not have to pay taxes.

 

The 'n-stuff' is the far larger welfare and entitlement bit of the government.

 

The only weary truth to come out of this whole neocon propaganda campaign is the obvious one that 1 in 2 Americans live on or below the poverty line. And are thus in no position to afford to pay for the wars the rich like to launch routinely.
http://www.npr.org/2011/12/15/143770049/census-1-in-2-americans-are-poor-or-low-income

Here's a thought. Help these people break out of poverty. Then tax them more.

 

I thought payroll taxes covered health and social security programmes?

 

Exactly.

Or just use turbo tax. It's easy to figure out.

I am married and have 6 kids make over $50K and get a check for a refund every year. I donot pay taxes. I get all mine back. I don't get what the confusion is all about.??????

 

So all you want to talk about is that the 1 in 2 Americans on or below the poverty line don't pay the taxes you describe as "federal".

So what?

Is it one of the benefits of being poor? Or something?