Campus Crusade Against Christianity

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by XXJefferson#51, May 31, 2019.

  1. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    .....Yale University seems to be the new True North for political intolerance, and here comes yet another episode in an endless list of grievances from the $72,000-a-year-tuition oppressed. An LGBTQ advocacy group called the Outlaws is furious that Yale's Federalist Society invited a lawyer from a so-called "hate group," the Alliance Defending Freedom, to discuss the case of Colorado baker Jack Phillips's refusal to make a cake for a same-sex wedding. For the record, ADF is one of the most respected organizations in the conservative movement today, which is why it qualifies as a hate group. In a sympathetic response, Yale Law School is creating a policy to stop providing stipends or loan forgiveness to students who work for organizations that defend traditional Christian views on sexual ethics.

    So if you work for the ACLU or Planned Parenthood after college, you can receive some loan forgiveness. You can defend abortionists or terrorist suspects and Yale will love you. But support traditional marriage? The right to life? That's beyond the pale.

    Sen. Ted Cruz called the policy "transparently discriminatory" and is now investigating, noting that Yale receives lots of federal funding, and the Trump administration has made it clear it's willing to deny federal funding to universities that curb freedom of speech. It's about time.......https://townhall.com/columnists/bre.../campus-crusade-against-christianity-n2547148 The Bias in liberal government and on college campuses against free speech is bad. That they use it to attack values and religious beliefs is worse. It’s time to have free speech for all.
     
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  2. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    We need to protect free speech from those who call the defense of traditional values and beliefs hate speech in order to silence such expressions.
     
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  3. Josh77

    Josh77 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    All speech should be allowed and tolerated, hate speech included.
     
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  4. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    Is there a difference between defending Christian Values and imposing Christian values. Yale is a private University and therefore can operate financially any way they wish. Just as one could point out financial policies at private Christian schools such as Bob Jones University that give advantages to Christian students. According to your article Yale did not stop the presentation from taking place. Hence you and your article are comparing two things that do not necessarily go together, financial policy and free speech.. Furthermore, your own article states that that the Law School "is considering" a policy (not that it has a policy) that would limit loan forgiveness to students who are part of "hate groups." The Alliance Defending Freedom" is not specified in the policy, but can be considered a hate group because of its support for the following:
    https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/alliance-defending-freedom

    So one can see why some people might see this as a "hate group."
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
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  5. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    So wait - you are mad that a speaker who is defending the right of the baker to free association and speech has created an atmosphere where a private University decides to exercise their rights to free association and speech.

    Baker of cakes gets to decide who he will associate with and who he will support. You are angry that a private University gets to decide who they will associate with and who they will support. Whatever.
     
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  6. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So who is the ADF to tell people how to live their lives? If people don't want to get married, that's their business and not the ADF. Right to life? Since life begins at birth, I know of no group or person except those who support the death penalty who advocates death.

    People should confine their religious views to inside their house or house of worship and not force their views down the throats of others.
     
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  7. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    Actually it is the SPLC that is the terrorist inspiring hate group. The Alliance Defending Freedom is a religious liberty advocacy group, and doesn’t hate anyone.
     
  8. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    ADF doesn’t force its views. It protects the rights of others in expressing and free exercising their own views. And no, Yale should not discriminate in how it treats interns and recent graduates based on who they work for.
     
  9. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Expressing = forcing
     
  10. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    That isn’t logical. How does me expressing what I believe in and why or even trying to get free exercise rights of people who believe like me forcing others to believe what I do or engage in the same free exercise I desire for others similar to myself to have? My free speech and free exercise right compel no one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  11. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    I notice you don't dispute any of the 4 facts listed by them. Only call them names.
     
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  12. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    While I see your point differing between defending and imposing- refusing to allow an opposing view to be heard or supported, especially one that has had long and wide respect in our nation takes the position of imposing the opposite view. However one could make a list of things supported by most institutions or groups that will be found oppressive or offensive by someone else. And while Yale is a private organization, we do not allow the same kind of discrimination is private business. Not the exact scenario, but directly parallel- and the policies of education have far greater effect on a society in the long run than any private business. Teaching comes with a moral obligation to do not harm. It may not have the common recognition the Hippocratic oath does is, but it is known to all teachers- and it started with Socrates.

    It seems like we are increasingly supporting the concept that the majority of people should not be allowed to think for themselves; that they need to be told when something is good or bad. That in itself is promoting ignorance, and diminishing the ability of the people. While it's obviously true that many people make miserable decisions, it's also true that we learn from our mistakes far better than we learn from the advice of others. We do need to educate people about things- but we need to avoid turning education into programming. Nothing is more beneficial to a person than the ability to think and reason for themselves, it is vital to having power over your own life. Anything, from any interest that sets out to stifle your individual ability to think and decide for yourself, or to distort facts to control what you can think- is one whose objective is to use you for their own purposes and deny you the right to be an individual, to be free.

    University's should be teaching people how to think, how to operate the mental machine with precision- not telling them what to think, trying to program them to someone else's agenda. Stupid and offensive ideas have always existed and always will. Wise minds see them as such and brush them aside, but programmed minds fail to ask the right questions, and give them voice and power.
     
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  13. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Yale students could better serve mankind if they had a campus crusade against radical Islamists. But like so many liberal loons they pick on whatever doesn't fight back.
     
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  14. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    The point I was trying to make is that there was no campus crusade against anyone except in the mind of the man who wrote the article. The policy stated did not exist and was only being considered by one part of the university. The speaker was allowed to speak. The group mentioned on the OP was not referred to by the University. The only thing the University was considering was if students who belonged to "hate groups" should have the same economic advantages as those who do not.
     
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  15. Observing

    Observing Well-Known Member

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    If you don't like the ACLU, you don't like the constitution.

    Ted Cruz in this case is on the right track, but is the school allowed to withhold grants to students for any reason?
    Defending the KKK, Those baptists nuts protesting at grave sites? cop killers? Yale is a private school and has a philosophy different from BYU or Oral Roberts or Liberty etc. While they receive government grants for research
    Their endowments fully fund the schools. They have 30 billion now in the bank.

    I am totally in favor of Cruz taking this tact with Pubic colleges but private colleges is another matter.
     
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  16. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    The SPLC talking points are not facts.
     
  17. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    One shows that something is not a fact by disproving it. Here are some quotes from leaders in the ADF:

    The endgame of the homosexual legal agenda is unfettered sexual liberty and the silencing of all dissent.”
    —ADF Senior Counsel Erik Stanley at the Gospel, Homosexuality, and the Future of Marriage conference, 2014

    We mention the new promotion of pedophilia in the context of talking about the influence of homosexual behavior on college campuses, because, despite all objections to the contrary, the two are often intrinsically linked.”
    —Alan Sears and Craig Osten, The Homosexual Agenda: Exposing the Principal Threat to Religious Freedom Today, 2003

    “The issue under rational-basis review is not whether Texas should be concerned about opposite-sex sodomy, but whether it is reasonable to believe that same-sex sodomy is a distinct public health problem. It clearly is.”
    —ADF attorney Glen Lavy, counsel of record, amicus brief, Lawrence v. Texas, 2003

    “And in the course of the now hundreds of cases the Alliance Defense Fund has now fought involving this homosexual agenda, one thing is certain: there is no room for compromise with those who would call evil ‘good.’”
    —Alan Sears, speaking at the World Congress of Families gathering in Madrid, Spain, 2012
     
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  18. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Many conservatives can speak on college campuses today. They just have to bring bodyguards and be willing to get shut down less than a minute after beginning to talk.
     
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  19. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    The SPLC Is Not Just Trying to Silence ADF – It’s Trying to Silence You
    By Sarah Kramer Posted on: | May 30, 2019
    It’s been a year since Amazon removed Alliance Defending Freedom (ADF) from its AmazonSmile program, which allows customers to choose a non-profit group to receive a percentage of any Amazon purchase.

    It didn’t take us long to find out why.

    Amazon pointed to the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), which labels ADF as a “hate group” simply for holding beliefs shared by millions of Christians across the world.

    These are beliefs that you likely share: Marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Life is sacred from conception until natural death. God created man in His image – male and female.

    But the SPLC has decided that these beliefs are no longer welcome in the public square. And it has directed its powerful allies and considerable resources – its assets are more than $500 million – toward silencing anyone who holds these beliefs.

    Since then, the attacks have only intensified.

    • Microsoft used the SPLC’s “hate” label to cut off our ability to buy software at non-profit pricing. This adds more than $100,000 to our annual costs.
    • In Arizona, a secularist organization attacked ADF in newspaper editorials, billboard ads, and proposed legislation over our ability to sponsor a specialty license plate that proclaims our national motto: “In God We Trust.”
    • Members of the mainstream media parrot the SPLC’s false talking points.
    • For several months, opponents attacked ADF with vicious and dishonest billboards in Times Square.
    But that’s not all.

    ADF team members have also paid the price for the SPLC’s false charges.

    They have been harassed online, disowned by their alma maters, and shouted down in public places. Some have had to be escorted by security officers when they speak on college campuses. One team member walked out of church to find her car window shot out days after arguing on behalf of our client Jack Phillips at the U.S. Supreme Court.

    Those with ties to ADF – allied attorneys, Blackstone Fellows, and even highly qualified judicial nominees – have been doxxed and dragged through the mud in the media.

    This is now how the SPLC spends its vast resources and power – harassing peaceful, conservative organizations and people simply because it disagrees with our beliefs..... http://blog.adflegal.org/detailspag...ing-to-silence-adf-it-s-trying-to-silence-you
     
  20. TomFitz

    TomFitz Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The moral bankruptcy of bad ideas become self evident over time.

    But there is no defense for groups and movements that try to conceal their real agenda, hide who they are, or misrepresent themselves.

    These ultra right wing evangelical based groups do that all the time. Declaring that they support tolerance while working hard against it.
     
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  21. gamewell45

    gamewell45 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yet the ADF would like to have it's views (which many may feel are discriminatory in nature) imposed on the American people.
     
  22. XXJefferson#51

    XXJefferson#51 Banned

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    Again, how does protecting the religious liberty of people to believe and exercise those beliefs for themselves in their own lives impose that upon everyone else? It seems the secular progressive position is that if they are not permitted to persecute believers based on their beliefs and their living up to them, then we are imposing our beliefs on them by forcing them not to live by our beliefs but simply insisting they tolerate our free expression and free exercise there of.
     
  23. Sirius Black

    Sirius Black Well-Known Member

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    I will leave this discussion after repeating a few points:
    1. How was anyone persecuted here? No speech was denied. No mention was made of the ADF in any policy. The policy you mention is not a policy. No one has yet been denied financial assistance for expressing their views.
    2. Would you impose your political position on this private institution by demanding that loan forgiveness should be guaranteed to specific people because of their beliefs?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
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  24. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    The Hippocratic oath came from Hippocrates. The Socratic Method is a teaching method, where Plato used the Socrates character to explain it.
    Is this a plea for help? Are you finding it difficult to think for yourself? Do you feel like you have to say or do, as the dominate culture compels you?

    I have lived and worked in areas where the vast majority of the people were college educated. I have also worked and lived in areas where few had a college education. Your argument here is rather blind to reality.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2019
  25. ImNotOliver

    ImNotOliver Well-Known Member

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    Did you ever stop to think that your religious beliefs are not the most moral position one can take? Why do you have to play the victim, when you are clearly not. As a child this was one of the issues that helped convince me that Christianity was a bit of a scam. They claimed that 98% of the people were Christians, yet acted as if they has to defend themselves against the dominate culture. but they were the dominate culture. Who was victimizing them?

    Of course now you have a bit more to worry about. When I graduated from high school, non-belief in the US was around 5%. Now, close to 40 years later, with lots of agitation by folks like me, and non-belief is at around 22% nationally, and more than 40% along the West Coast. Among Millennials in some areas, it is closer to 70%.

    And yes, if you want to know, the Christian message has fallen out of favor, and it isn't coming back. As it fades from prominence, it is sure to get more corrupt, more violent.
     
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