Can Bernie Sanders Make This A One Term President?

Discussion in 'Elections & Campaigns' started by liberalminority, Aug 1, 2017.

  1. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ Well that's an opinion.
     
  2. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    5% of the US population are responsible for 50% of all US medical spending. That's a fact. Overall employment has declined, and has barely returned to pre recession levels, not accounting for population growth. That's also a fact.
     
  3. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    So you are saying Trump is failing. OK, let's get single payer in action and spread the fix.
     
  4. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    OK. But ...
    That's not detailed enough. And, the details can make a huge difference.

    Bernie's plan does not start at once. It is a step wise progression over a period of years, only covering all citizens after a number of years (less than 10, but I don't remember how many). How does that affect that $14T number?

    $14T over 10 years is FAR less than what we spend today, even if you project zero growth in health care costs (which would be crazy, obviously).

    And, what part of today's total health care expenditure (personal, corporate, taxes, etc.) must that be compared to? Is he saying it would cost $14T over 10 years more than we would spend under the plan of today? Is he saying that would be the total expenditure? That would be a significant reduction from today.

    Since it is a 10 year projection, what is the growth rate in the cost of health care that he is projecting?

    I don't know what you mean by "depending on traditional employment" or how anyone thinks that will affect healthcare costs.

    I know I should be reading more about this, but the cost data I find seems twisted by politics and not oriented to apples-to-apples comparisons.

    One site says we would end up spending $32T on healthcare over 10 years. Frankly, I think that is no more (and quite possibly less) than we would spend under either today's plan or what we were doing before Obamacare.

    I know they quoted that number to be scary, but I was actually encouraged!!
     
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  5. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    No, Bernie cannot make Trump a one-term president, and here's why:

    1. Bernie must run as a Democrat. The duopoly ensures that only D's and R's have a chance of winning. If Bernie ran third party, he would just split the left's vote, and help Trump win a second term.

    2. While running within the Democratic party, Bernie will not be able to fund another campaign. The people who funded Bernie this time around got burned; they found out that the DNC had put the fix in against Sanders. Those funders are unlikely to allow themselves to be defrauded again (especially now that they know the courts won't do anything about such political fraud).
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
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  6. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If we didn't, punks like lil' Kim could hold us hostage with a single nuke. We should probably spend more on defense now, we have been stagnant and we need a more innovation going forward...
     
  7. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    No, we have not, no, we wont, and we always need more innovation.
     
  8. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    More military spending isn't going to change much with respect to NK. That's just a ridiculous direction.

    We're not going to nuke NK on a first strike basis. And, no conventional force is going to solve the problem, either.
     
  9. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Any first strike by anybody is going to rule out convention force strikes.

    It will be a matter of disaster control, mopping up, and rebuilding.
     
  10. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    Conventional force strikes are pretty much ruled out already, aren't they?
     
  11. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, because we will end up with the destruction of the Korean Peninsula and a solid portion of Japan.
     
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  12. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe I was referring to 15 years of accelerated depreciation pushed by Bush and Obama to "stimulate the economy" by giving a substantial tax incentive to companies big and small to investing in automation and productivity.

    While blue collar professions are heavily insulated, white collar jobs are disappearing in droves, and if we are ever stupid enough to go with single payer lets not fund it with a payroll tax that will continually decrease in the amount of revenue generated.

    Bernie's claim was incredibly vague, and obviously done by himself, and you should never trust someone's own research. Most cost projections for Bernie's specific plan land in the $3-3.5 trillion range.

    We currently spend about $2.31 trillion on actual health care(the rest comes from capital investments, improvements, research, administrative overhead, etc) according to Federal estimates, and that's only covering 91% of the population. Adding vision and dental, and the other 9%, makes $3.2 trillion a year a very reasonable figure(because I assume, but am not entirely sure, that vision and dental spending is counted separately as they do not receive the same political or media coverage).

    What I do know for a fact is that single payer won't save much in administration, as Federal programs are already administered by private companies because the Federal government acknowledges they couldn't do it for less, and the Federal government already has considerable bargaining power with dominant market share and doesn't really save money. Medicare costs, despite the massive current holes in Medicare coverage, run between $8,500-12,000 per enrollee(depending on the state).

    Link

    And efforts by Medicaid to reduce costs have led to extremely poor care, to the point that even when correcting for the fact that most adults on Medicaid are in extreme poverty and poor health, a healthy adult would still have drastically lower health care outcomes than one on private insurance.

     
  13. Durandal

    Durandal Well-Known Member Donor

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    I don't see a need to include vision and dental. These services are generally affordable in my experience.
     
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  14. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    1. Bernie Sanders will never be President.
    2. Hillary Clinton will never be President.
    3. Elizabeth Warren will never be President.

    A winning Democrat will be young, slick, charismatic and backed by empty, airy slogans instead of specific policies. They will be able to transcend any "DC insider" baggage sticking to them and convince the electorate they are an outsider. I am fairly confident that the American electorate will never elect anyone perceived as a "DC lifer" or "permanent politician" again in my lifetime.
     
  15. Andrew Jackson

    Andrew Jackson Well-Known Member

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    Agree with the first part. (The 3 names).

    That is a no brainer.

    Disagree with the 2nd part.
     
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  16. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Bernie Sanders is no FDR. He doesn't have the elite connections, the intelligence, the experience, or the common sense to do anything helpful, IMO.
     
  17. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    LOL Bernie Sanders can take a lot of votes from the candidate the DNC chooses
     
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  18. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying he can do what he wants however he has three qualities I like he is a seasoned politician who has experience and largely respected on both sides of the political spectrum, he is sane and study (beats Donald and Hillary right there by a long shot) and he never flip flops on his positions without at least a sound reason (again Donald and Hillary lose). In short he is a clean cut enough honest politician who says something and doesn't change easily and if he does he can explain why.

    Plus he is for legalizing pot, free college tuition, Medicare for all, helping the Middle Class, more taxes on the wealthier people and many other issues the average American agree should at least be considered and looked at and some ideas might work but saying he is an idealist and socialist although true detracts from the simple fact these should be options and perhaps lead to a version that can work.
     
  19. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    If you're going to do universal health care you might as well, as they are relatively affordable, but many people also forgo them when times get tough. That being the case, and considering the incredible impact that they can have on your overall health from neglect, it would probably save money.
     
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  20. Scampi

    Scampi Active Member

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    Of course Sanders is a socialist but daren’t say so because too many Americans haven’t yet worked out the deference between socialism and communism. President? A tricky one, two and a bit years are a long time when you are way past seventy.
     
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