Can I convince PF's resident no-planers that AAL77 hit the Pentagon - #3

Discussion in '9/11' started by cjnewson88, May 27, 2016.

  1. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Well that would be completely bogus since the NTSB has very specific guidelines for conducting forensic airplane crash investigations, the FBI does not.

    The same FBI that hid 27 boxes of documents (approx. 80,000 pages) from their PENTTBOM investigation, from Congress and the 9/11 Commission and lied and told them they gave them everything. And the same FBI that has no authority and isn't qualified to conduct forensic airplane crash investigations.

    A forensic airplane crash investigation is not just about figuring out how and why the plane crashed, there is a ton more that is forensically investigated in intricate detail. In any case, whether they needed to figure out how and why the plane crashed is not an issue to consider for any forensic airplane crash investigation, it is SOP (i.e. REQUIRED) and there are no exceptions (except that the US government deliberately made hundreds of exceptions for 9/11 as part of its agenda to coverup everything about 9/11).

    As an example, Appendix J of the NTSB's Major Investigations Manual details some of the standard procedures applicable to the airplane parts:

    http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/process/Documents/MajorInvestigationsManualApp.pdf
     
  2. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    Now maybe this is rather much out of line....
    However given my personal experience in the military a few years ago, any Government entity that needs expertise outside their normal operations
    simply hires consultants to do the high level PHD grade noodle it out sorts of things and the work gets done. If additional expertise was called for, why not simply hire a consultant who can get the job done and do it right? is there any record of even a discussion of this sort of thing?
     
  3. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    I am a pilot. Having used the NTSB site a few times to review their reports, they investigate. Alas, searching their site, today, I was not able to locate the report.

    I am aware the FBI got their report, to help in said investigation. But a point for you, since I find no report!

    I plan to check this out further.

    More....http://nsarchive.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/

     
  4. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    I want to address a specific point, the allegation was made that "FLT77" could have been on its way to Ronald Ragun airport,
    HOWEVER, the flight path + speed of the aircraft was totally wrong for it to be even remotely possible to assume the airliner
    was headed for the airport. and I want to clear this up so that nobody labors under miss-conceptions about the flight path.
    Look at a map of D.C. and note the position of the side of the Pentagon that was hit, relative to the nearby airport.
     
  5. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    They do a forensic investigation to figure out why an airplane crashed. In this case they didn't need to find out why so turned over what they had to the FBI since they were leading the investigation.
     
  6. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Let me give you a hint.

    I have no doubt at all that flight 77 crashed.Some of the passengers were famous, including Barbara Olsen. Wife of Ted Olsen, himself very famous.

    Ted would be leading the fight over this to support your view if a hint of truth was in your allegations.

    The passengers and crew were documented. There simply were no crash sites for Flight 77, other than at the pentagon. I recall that there were more than 135 eye witness reports.The landing site was to be at California. Said hijackers took over the airplane and the trained pilot flew it to DC.He had no intention of landing at Reagan nor Dulles.

    Though it was prior to the crash site, I have driven a car to a gate area of the pentagon, saw it in person, then drove away.

    Shearing the light poles would have been a feat of magic.Putting workers into cahoots with the hijackers.

    This crazy dialogue that it was a missile can't explain a source of said missile.That is ignored..

    That 77 did not make direct impact with the pentagon, requires locating the airplane,crew and passengers,.

    None of the theories you accept account for the people.

    Look, I don't care if you think Flight 77 landed safely elsewhere or not, the facts simply do not back up your claims.

    Your claims make it very complex and extremely difficult to pull off.
     
  7. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Sorry, but NTSB did do an investigation. What you must mean is those reports were sent to the FBI The FBI likes to hire legal types and accountants. But they do not have on staff trained investigators concerning aviation.
     
  8. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, exactly. They sent their findings to the FBI but they sent the things that you have seen, flight reports, ATC recordings, etc. They did not need to do a forensic exam since they knew why they crashed.
     
  9. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Nope, it did come approximate Reagan Airport, the path was wrong to land there.

    I suspect few posters have been both at Reagan Airport and the pentagon. I have both flown into and out of Reagan as well as been at the Pentagon, up to one of the gates.

    The path of 77 was good for California, but terrorists commanded the airplane, and skillfully piloted it back to DC where it was flown into the pentagon. The trained pilot had time to learn the airplane on the way to DC.

    Going from a private pilot's license to flying to DC is easier than the newbie may think.The pilot was not landing and only had to control throttle and rudder and ailerons to crash where he wanted.

    Since I am a private pilot, I realize that on a suicide mission, it can be done.
     
  10. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    Wow, they had one black box. Heck,.I as a pilot, I am pretty sure of why airplanes crash even from news reports. NTSB goes way deeper than you may believe. Some of the forensics was actual reports on the airplane's location and data from one recorder.

    When Kennedy crashed a private airplane, I figured out why just from the news.But still it took NTSB months later to make the full report. Also, I believe NTSB knew it also from news reports.

    The nature of this crash became apparent very soon, so of course it is the purview of the FBI on terrorism matters.
     
  11. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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  12. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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  13. Blues63

    Blues63 New Member Past Donor

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    Rense...LOLOL
     
  14. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Yes they do and for many other reasons as well. In this particular case, it happened on 9/11, which means EVERYTHING down to the most minute/microscopic detail required investigation. Cutting corners was not an option.

    Already addressed by what you quoted, pay attention. It's irrelevant whether YOU believe they needed to or not, it has nothing to do with SOP requirements.

    Yes they did, apparently prior to completing the full forensic investigation as outlined in detail by the NTSB's Major Investigation Manual. This is clearly evident since what they turned over is missing quite a few of the requirements, a portion of which is clearly outlined in Appendix J and missing from what they turned over.

    It seems there are a host of posters who readily give every single agency of the US government and all the state actors a pass on every single failure when it comes to 9/11. In pathological defense of the OCT and the storytellers.
     
  15. Katzenjammer

    Katzenjammer New Member

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    bottom line here, where is the accounting for the remains of the alleged FLT77?
    how much of it was recovered and by what means was the wreckage verified as having been part of the "hijacked airliner"?
     
  16. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    They didn't do that because they went to this forum and read the posts that said what happened was OBVIOUS. That absolved them from investigating anything.
     
  17. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is why they need to specifically determine the cause of the 'accident'. In this case the cause is well known and not an 'accident'.
     
  18. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As a pilot, an aircraft mechanic, and having worked in ATC, I probably know more about this than you ever will.
     
  19. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    The feds would be saying this were it true.Obama does all he can trying to discredit Bush.
     
  20. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    You have me beat. I have been pilot since 1980.

    I have no clue why some people believe almost anything so long as they try to defeat actual experts.

    Any pilot knows what jet fuel fire looks like.Missile, no way.
     
  21. Robert

    Robert Banned Donor

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    As pilots, when there is a deliberate crash, we both know that NTSB may not be the lead on terrorists,but they are on crashes.

    I see this as two or more agencies, involved in the matter.I get what you are saying too.
     
  22. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Occams Razor. The simplest explanation is usually the correct one. To think that multiple agencies and possibly thousands of people are in on some conspiracy is basically unrealistic and untenable. The murder of thousands of Americans would not sit well with the ordinary government workers the populate those positions that would have to be in on it.
     
  23. Shinebox

    Shinebox Well-Known Member

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    just being facetious ... but I'm pretty sure it was space beams ...
     
  24. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I can tell since you're ok with them cutting corners. You have me so convinced. Maybe as a "pilot" and "aircraft mechanic" and "having worked in ATC", perhaps you should read the NTSB Major Investigation Manual, including the Appendices, so you would actually begin to familiarize yourself with what it's all about. Let me know if and when you get to Appendix J, in case you have a problem with what it says. Perhaps I can help you. I didn't see anything in there about skipping any forensic investigative procedure/guideline because internet jockeys make claims that they believe what's OBVIOUS to them, did you? But perhaps I missed it in the manual, so please point to the page where it says that. Thanks.
     
  25. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your paranoia not withstanding, reality set in.
     

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