Can I not believe in God and NOT be an atheist?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Patricio Da Silva, May 1, 2020.

  1. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I believe the tunnel of light you see when you die is the doorway to rebirth, our souls are like mosquito's attracted to the light, the light of life, the only way to escape the cycle of life and death is to learn to control your conscious mind in this life and decide not to enter the light when that time comes
     
  2. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    That is my point, entirely.
     
  3. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Body, soul, and spirit, are different. Man's spiritual connection to God was lost when he sinned with original sin.


    https://www.gotquestions.org/body-soul-spirit.html

     
  4. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    If a good judge cannot let a criminal go unpunished, but your God allows a criminal to go unpunished, as somebody else takes his punishment instead, then by your own assertion it follows that your God is not a good judge.

    BTW when just about all your posts are copy & paste from some website you found, I am forced to wonder if you are a bot.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
    Buri likes this.
  5. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    God forgives people because Jesus died on the cross to forgive their sins. God can't just forgive us without Him dying on the cross, because He is Holy and Just and he cannot let sin go unpunished.
     
  6. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    He's god, he certainly could if he actually wanted to. That's why this kind if thing cannot be taken seriously. I won't even get into the fact he knew all of that would happen and had no plan for the people that died BEFORE the jesus part.

    This is what happens when you collect a bunch of different religious myths and then make one book of them all.
     
  7. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Gods holy nature means He couldnt forgive us without the payment of Jesus. Regarding what you said about the people who died before Jesus, Acts 17 30 says God overlooked people's ignorance about these things in earlier times, but now he commands everyone everywhere to repent of their sins and turn to him.

    Would it be right if a judge just said I forgive us? Thats why Jesus died for our sins. Jesus was like a lawyer who took the place of a defendant. https://www.bibletools.org/index.cf...gg/ID/4354Christ-as-Bridge-Between-God-Us.htm

    God just forgiving us would be an insult to the holiness of God. Christianity is unique in that it believes in the holiness of God and His love for His creation and his Just nature.
     
  8. Buri

    Buri Well-Known Member

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    you just made that up. you can't go around making up the rules for your deity. according to your quote in acts, he could overlook the whole mess. this is why no one takes these things seriously, do not let that stop you.
     
  9. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Could a judge tell a convicted rapist or pedophile that they forgive them? No. The law means that not following a law has a penalty. Thats why Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of the world and He didnt just say that He forgives us.

     
  10. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Which is vicarious redemption, and something you yourself just stated no good judge would allow. You said any good judge would not allow you to go unpunished for your wrongs, and yet your God allows it, punishing an innocent person in your place.

    Why would any sane person consider it just to allow one person to be punished for the wrongs of somebody else?

    But the wrongdoer isn't being punished. You are endorsing the torture of an innocent for the wrongs of the wrongdoer. That isn't just. "Holy" is a nonsense word.

    Again, an innocent person suffers and the wrongdoer isn't punished. A repentant Hitler goes forgiven without punishment, and a Ghandi, who doesn't follow your religion, is not forgiven for the "crime" of not believing in or obeying your God.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  11. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Jesus was like a judge taking the place of a son who committed a crime. That's why God dying for our sins makes sense. Jesus is God and He chose to take the punishment of our sins. God punished himself in our place. God chose to have Himself be punished for our wrongs. Since God is Holy he could take our infinite punishment in a finite amount of time. God is infinite, our wrongdoings are finite but they have an infinite penalty, and we are finite. God is a good judge because he still maintains his justice by paying the price for our sins. Sin doesnt go unpunished. God took the punishment of our sins. He was the innocent person punished in our place. Its not vicarious redemption because with God its different.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-die.html

     
  12. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    That was done under the control of God. Jesus died on the cross and was dead and preached to the spirits in prison and he rose again on the third day. https://www.gotquestions.org/where-was-Jesus.html

     
  13. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    so you don't believe Jesus is God?

    if Jesus is God and you believe the story, God(Jesus) pretended to die, pretending to be stuck in his dead body for 3 days...ect.....

    God's can't be killed, they can only pretend to be killed
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  14. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    The Bible is not circular reasoning. What the Bible teaches lines up with everything we know. There is a God, there is a moral law. The heavens declare the glory of God and people say they dont see God, but they see God in nature and in their conscience. The Gospel of Thomas doesnt address that we are sinners who need a Savior. I believe that there is a personal God, because everything that exists in nature has such a design and a purpose. I dont agree with esoteric Christianity or Christian mysticism. Jesus came to save us and teach us how to live, not to have esoteric or mystical teachings that only a few people could understand. Sometimes when people read the Bible again, they notice details that they didnt notice before, but thats different from esoterica or mysticism.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-a-person.html

     
  15. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    The Bible doesnt give the details of the childhood of Jesus and all the day to day details of the personal life of Jesus. The Apostles wrote what they needed to write. The Bible does contain information about the childhood of Jesus. It doesnt mention certain details, and thats the same reason that all the details that he taught his inner circle is not mentioned in the Bible. https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-childhood.html

    I believe that gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, have historical basis that the Gospel of Thomas and teachings like Christ was in India and England, dont have.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-India.html

     
  16. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    How is the existence of God not logical when we all know that we sin? We do things we arent supposed to do. Thats why Christ died for our sins. The desire of divinity being within us is what influenced Lucifer and one third of the angels to sin, as well as what influenced original sin, which caused humanity to be separated from God. I believe that believing in God is logical. Many scientists, like Michio Kaku, believe in God. Believing in God is logical, because science influenced Lee Strobel to believe in God. Darwin was an agnostic and he had doubts about evolution. It's a theory and not a hypothesis.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/is-God-logical.html

     
  17. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    The GOT is a 'sayings' gospel, not a story told or narration. That, for me, is more to the idea that these are the words of Christ, or an enlightened person, and there are elements of the caliber of writing of a mystic, in the writing, which I would expect of someone who is a Christ, or possesses Christ's consciousness. See, you look at the world through the lens of Christianity. I.,e 'Jesus is the son of God", I do not. From an eastern philosophical view, Christ is an 'enlightened being'. Therefore, a meeting of mind on this is not possible. I am not interested in the 'historical basis' that's for academics, i'm only interested in the message in the GOT.
     
  18. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    I dont agree with the idea of Jesus being a teacher like Buddha. I think that Buddhisms teachings about who Jesus was and their not believing in a personal God or the concept of sin being not following the laws of God, is unbibical, despite what they say about not fixating on desires, being a teaching that sounds nice. Just because something has elements of truth doesnt mean its true. I believe that Jesus is God, not a religious leader like Buddha or Lao Tzu. The Bible teaches that Jesus had the roles of prophet, priest, and King, but He first and foremost is God, not a prophet. I believe there is a difference between the teachings of Christ and the teachings of Buddha. Jesus is considered the greatest teacher ever and to quote what Mark Cahill said in one heartbeat away, His sayings permeate society to this day and they have the ring of truth to most people.

    https://www.gotquestions.org/Gautama-Buddha.html

     
  19. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Deuteronomy 24 16 and psalm 47 9 don't contradict the message of the Gospels. All of the books of the Bible have a consistent message. Christ was not an avatar. He wasn't reincarnated, the Bible says He was resurrected. Thats why I dont believe in Christ consciousness. Why do you believe in Jesus not being God but being an avatar?

    https://reasonsforjesus.com/christ-consciousness-debunked-by-jesus/

     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2020
  20. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    YOur viewpoint arises from a Christian indoctrination. I'm not indoctrinated. There is no 'original sin' in my universe, that is a Christian thing. It is a guilt trip and I don't accept it. Did Jesus speak of it? I don't think so. Birth and sex from which birth arises is not a sin. The idea is absurd, these are the guilt trips of fallible men of antiquity and I doubt Jesus would say this. In my view, you can toss out everything but the words of Jesus. I am only interested in the words of enlightened beings, such as Jesus, Lao Tzu, Ramana Maharshi, Chang Tzu, Siddartha, etc. none of whom would teach such a thing as 'the original sin'.

    The Bible doesn't contain his entire teaching, only those words which were comprehendable by men of antiquity which were compatible with the church agenda. His esoteric teachings were excluded from the Canon.
     
  21. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    I believe Jesus is God. The Bible says in Luke 24: 7 that "that the Son of Man must be betrayed into the hands of sinful men and be crucified, and that he would rise again on the third day.”

    God died on the cross for our sins. He died for our sins, He didnt pretend to die on the cross. The ressurection wasnt faked. https://www.gotquestions.org/did-God-die.html

    https://www.gotquestions.org/why-believe-resurrection.html

     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    if he is really a God, then he only pretended to die, if he really died, then he wasn't a God
     
  23. Patricio Da Silva

    Patricio Da Silva Well-Known Member Donor

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    I believe Christ was an enlightened being, a mystic, in the fashion of Siddartha, Lao Tzu, Chung Tzu, Ramana Maharshi, Krishnamurti, Rajneesh, Sadhguru, etc

    The whole 'son of God' thing is a Christian construct. The idea is to make Christ something above man, a deity. I don't accept it. For one thing, I don't accept the existence of a personal god, so there is no 'son' to be had. An enlightened being is just a human who has achieved self-realization and is free from the cycle of birth, death, reincarnation (the wheel of reincarnation) "know thyself and the truth will set you free' is compatible with this idea.

    Everyone, eventually, which achieve enlightenment, either in this life, or eventually in a future life. We keep coming back until we achieve it, it is our natural heritage. Just as a seed grows and achieves fruition. Souls are similar, but the process takes millions of years, starting out as very small things, growing, going up the genetic line from the one celled creature, to higher organisms, the animal kingdom, until the soul reaches the human state, where enlightenment is possible. This makes more sense to me because with this, all living things are spiritual and all living things, in time, will achieve spiritual fruition. With this, life is fair. Everyone will experience many lives, in some we will be beautiful handsome, rich, and some we will not, we will be everything there is to be, both male and female, all the good and all the bad and everything in between, and when we are ready, we feel the need for spiritual achievement, and start on a path of spiritual acceleration via meditation. If you do not feel that need, it's not for you.
     
  24. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Jesus's teachings were to teach everyone how to live, not just people with esoteric knowledge. When the Bible mentions mysteries it doesnt mention esoterica.
     
  25. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    It was possible for God to die for our sins because of the Hypostatic Union. https://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_god_dying.htm

     

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