Can someone point me to a Free Market Healthcare System that works?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Ericb760, Mar 12, 2017.

  1. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fiction movies are now passing for real life? :roll:
     
  2. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    The former "party of morality" now worships the Almighty Dollar on the high alter of the Wall Street Casino. Any pretense of "morality" has been sacrificed to serve the voracious greed of the 1%.

    Not claiming that the Dems are saints either but the GOP has utterly abandoned using terms like "family values" anymore. To do so after supporting Trump, who is the antithesis of everything that they once claimed to hold dear, would be hypocritical.
     
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  3. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    Back in the old days, this one was good enough to attract 60,000 - 85,000 medical tourists seeking the best care in the world:
    Allison Van Dusen
    5/29/2008 @ 6:00PM
    U.S. Hospitals Worth The Trip

    When you hear the term medical tourism, you probably think of the number of uninsured Americans taking advantage of low-cost heart surgery and hip replacement procedures in places like Thailand and India.

    But while the trend continues, and raises important questions about why so many Americans can’t afford health care at home, a new report points out that the largest segment of medical travelers are headed stateside. And, experts say, they’re also growing in numbers.

    An estimated 40% of all medical travelers are looking for the world’s most advanced technologies, worrying little about the proximity of the destination or cost, according to consulting firm McKinsey & Co. It narrowly defined medical travelers as only those whose primary and explicit purpose in traveling was to obtain in-patient medical treatment in a foreign country, putting the total number of travelers at 60,000 to 85,000 per year.

    In Depth: U.S. Hospitals Worth The Trip
    Most of those patients in search of the best care, including 38% from Latin America, 35% from the Middle East, 16% from Europe and 7% from Canada, are heading to the United States. Additionally, it’s estimated that 32% of all medical travelers simply want better care than is available in their home countries, mostly those in the developing world, and 15% want quicker access to medically necessary procedures. That’s compared to only 9% of medical travelers seeking medically necessary procedures at lower prices and 4% seeking low-cost discretionary procedures.

    Why America?

    Commonly seeking cutting-edge cardiovascular, neurological or oncology treatments, the bulk of medical travelers head to U.S. medical facilities because physicians from their native countries have trained or currently work there or they follow the lead of friends or family. And then, of course, there’s the United States’ reputation when it comes to health care.
    https://www.forbes.com/2008/05/25/h..._avd_outsourcing08_0529healthoutsourcing.html

    The US was the last vestige of free market healthcare. With the imposition of Totalitarian Healthcare, men have been forced to insure themselves to cover hysterectomies and women have to insure themselves against prostate cancer. The current US Totalitarian Healthcare system is the joke of the world.
     
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  4. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    The free market model means poor people will die
     
  5. mitchscove

    mitchscove Well-Known Member Donor

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    Never did in the past.. No reason to expect it will start.

    Medicaid expansion, at least in Ohio, is the largest transfer of wealth in history. Poor people who fall under the line are free from Premiums, free from Deductibles, and free from Co-pays. They get 100% free healthcare. Even the poorest people who pick up the tab pay Premiums, Deductibles, and Co-pays. These benefactors end up in worse financial shape than people on Medicaid.

    No one in need of care was ever turned away from an emergency room. The 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act guaranteed it. Understanding that emergency rooms are expensive because of equipment needed for emergency cases and doctors who stand around waiting for something to happen --- they are a perfect place for the poor to make soft appointments, receive preventative care --- absorbing some of the overhead of the emergency room. States and localities shouldn't be hammered at emergency room rates for non-emergency and preventative care performed on a time available basis.
     
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  6. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Donor

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    They won't be able to, just like the small government folks won't be able to point to a large country like ours that is successful with a small limited government. While the fact that it hasn't happened yet in both of my examples doesn't mean it can't happen, it's not exactly reassuring for those positions either.
     
  7. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    It works in the UK and has done since 1947; our demographic is not much different to yours. Your ignorant racist comment is noted, by the way. I wonder what you would say to the black or Latino medic treating you. My guess is nothing, because you don't have the courage of your convictions. The internet is such a safe place to post racist crap, is it not?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2017
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  8. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    I swear to god that anyone conservative has not really realized their own mortality. There is a difference between knowing about death, and realizing that one is actually going to die. Often, even the witnessing of parent's death is not enough to make people realize their own mortality. Mostly, it takes a brush with death for themselves. Once that happens, I am not sure one can still be conservative, because the realization sets in that no amount of money can save you from dying, and when you die, money loses all importance. And since conservatives view the world through the money lens only, it stands to reason that they have not come to terms with mortality.

    Trump is a typical case. He boasts about the longevity in his family. That means that he really hasn't thought about dying yet. He thinks he still has many decades to go. Thus, the insatiable need to accumulate more and more money.
     
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  9. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    there wasnt a free market model in the past
     
  10. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Never yet been to a funeral where accumulated wealth and possessions were mourning the passing of their owner.
     
  11. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    "No it's right on topic. Universal healthcare cannot work in a multicultural society such as the US, where the majority are carrying the weight of the black and Latino minorities."

    this is one of the most ignorant posts on this forum in a long long time. half of blacks are middle class or better and 29% of latino immigrants are middle class.
     
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  12. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    There are no free market healthcare systems, just ones that government has ****ed up
     
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  13. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    The intellectual elephant in the room is what exactly is meant by a healthcare system that works. To put it simply any system will work for the rich. But if the measure of what works is the best average result for the entire population then of course no Free Market System is going to be able to compete on results.
     
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  14. Paysan

    Paysan Active Member

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    The most f'ed up healthcare system in the developed world is that of the U$A.

    EVERY other developed nation has universal access. Life expectancy in the U$A is now declining. Children no longer expect to do better than their parents. This country is rusting, rotting and putrifying, and the continued efforts of the GOP to deprive millions of healthcare are only a part of this process.

    Yet we have a system which works---Medicare---which only need to be extended to everyone, not only geezers (I'm 66). Simple... voilà, problem solved!

    Ah, but Yanks aren't good at solving problems. The only solution the GOP has for anything is to blame liberals for it.
     
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  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    So of course he will veto the Ryan bill if it gets to his desk. Or maybe it was just another Trump lie.
     
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  16. felonius

    felonius Active Member

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    wellfare will pay for your food. Your housing. Now you want the government to literally provide you life support? There really would be ZERO incentive to work. God forbid you see good healthcare and try to get a better job, go to school, succeed in life?
     
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  17. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    you are just making assumptions. stop it.
     
  18. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    The double-tier would work, but I don't think anybody really wants a double-tier health care system. If so, I've never heard anybody advocating for it.
    That could be a possibility in a state wide situation.

    Singapores is a double tier, but the private sector is separate from the scum class of health care they have, and it is a good one. It's not partially funded by taxes, so it does classify as a free market (ish) health care system that works.

    If people really want that, then I think it would be far better than the mishmash we have now.

    I think our friends on the left would howl like stuck pigs if it was instituted, but.... it's an idea.
     
  19. felonius

    felonius Active Member

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    What, did you already forget your liberal scare tactics? Or are you walking your words back because you dont want to debate my op and would rather whine about semantics? Hypocrite.
     
  20. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe there are any free market health care systems currently in existence. The blind rush to government run healthcare has taken care of that.

    But there used to be a free market system in the USA, and it did quite well, better than any other nation. But with the expansion of the FDA followed by obamacare, that system no longer exists.

    So your question is flawed. You should ask, does a government run system work, how well, and would its flaws be solved by a free market system? But you won't like the answers.
     
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  21. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    I am not a liberal. your ignorance means you are ignorant.
     
  22. Maxwell

    Maxwell Banned

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    Poor people AND wealthy people die every day. The free market is always more efficient and less costly than government run anything.
     
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  23. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

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    There haven't been any since Medicare was passed. And there won't be because Power hungry bureaucracies and politicians figured out that if you can get control of the healthcare system then everything else will eventually fall into your lap.
     
  24. katzgar

    katzgar Banned

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    fortunately its not your decision to make
     
  25. felonius

    felonius Active Member

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    brilliant argument, deflection once again. Do you have any opinions or do you always argue the opposing viewpoint is inherently invalid?
     

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