Can the US military recover its reputation?

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Lil Mike, Dec 11, 2021.

  1. Melb_muser

    Melb_muser Well-Known Member Donor

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    And yet I get there's a correlation between worldviews and national views of your military.
     
  2. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    So, you seem to be saying, in order to save our military, we have to stop spending so much-- on our military.
     
  3. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    What the F**k does that even mean?
     
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  4. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    That's not really what I was responding to with that comment.
     
  5. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Recover? It never lost its reputation. It took a hit after Vietnam, but even then it was not the military's fault, because that war would have been won if they let the military win it.

    Why do you always view everything in such negative light?

    US Citizens and citizens of foreign nations hold US military in very high regard, and the fact that we are helping Ukraine destroy Russian military is only one example. Germany is buying big from the US as are other allies. Why do you think they turned to us, and not some other country like China? Its because they respect us. The only people who see US military as trash is people like you when you make comments like you did in the OP, and I suspect that even you respect the military but want to tear them down publicly because you think it might help make some partisan point.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2022
  6. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Those were the results of a poll I referenced in the OP.
     
  7. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your words: "I've been shocked at how my respect for the military has declined"
     
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  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    Did you forget what you wrote?

    "US Citizens and citizens of foreign nations hold US military in very high regard"

    The poll shows: "The institute’s November 2021 poll found that only 45 percent of those polled report “a great deal of trust and confidence in the military” — down 25 points in three years. The institute adds “Increasing numbers of Americans say they have little or not much confidence in the military, which is up 15 points in the last three years.”

    That's a decline. As for my respect, absolutely it's declined. I believe the military leadership is incompetent and I question our ability to fight and win a war with a peer or near peer military. That's something I didn't think a few years ago.
     
  9. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, but maybe you forgot what you wrote when you said your respect for the military has declined.

    The poll, which you declined to link in, sums it up very accurately: "It is more likely that the survey results indicate that Americans are increasingly viewing the military — as an institution — through the lens of partisan politics" and "The survey indicates that Republicans in particular are losing confidence in the military. "

    So, yes, the RW smear campaign against the US has some success, which is always the case.
     
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  10. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    A very dishonest poster would edit out the reply that actually responds to to the dishonest poster's inquiry.
     
  11. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why should anyone quote your copy/paste when its obvious you post it to deflect from what you said about the military
     
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  12. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I actually responded to you. That seems rather pointless if you are just going to edit out my reply and pretend that I never responded to your comment.
     
  13. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ironically, when I found the poll with the parts that you omitted out of your OP, it said exactly what I said in my 1st post here. It seemed obvious, - and it was.

    My initial comment: "US Citizens and citizens of foreign nations hold US military in very high regard, and the fact that we are helping Ukraine destroy Russian military is only one example. Germany is buying big from the US as are other allies. Why do you think they turned to us, and not some other country like China? Its because they respect us. The only people who see US military as trash is people like you when you make comments like you did in the OP, and I suspect that even you respect the military but want to tear them down publicly because you think it might help make some partisan point."

    The poll:
    "It is more likely that the survey results indicate that Americans are increasingly viewing the military — as an institution — through the lens of partisan politics" and "The survey indicates that Republicans in particular are losing confidence in the military. "
     
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  14. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    So you think me not including all of the article in the OP is equivalent to you deceptively editing my reply so you can pretend that I never responded to you?

    Hmmm...I don't think so.
     
  15. Pro_Line_FL

    Pro_Line_FL Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Save your deflections for the weak minded.

    From the poll (the part which you excluded): "It is more likely that the survey results indicate that Americans are increasingly viewing the military — as an institution — through the lens of partisan politics"
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2022
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  16. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    "It was likely the chaotic retreat from Kabul in August — the first time the American people witnessed a defeat in real-time — that pushed the poll numbers lower. Added to that were the deaths of 13 service members killed by a suicide bomber at the gate of Kabul’s airport as they worked to speed the humanitarian evacuation."

    I'm sure the humiliating rout from Afghanistan and the Chairman of the Joint Chief's open treason had nothing to do with it.
     
  17. Esperance

    Esperance Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Leaving the way that Biden chose to was subject to ridicule. But there are a few military analysts that have questioned whether all of that military equipment was left behind by design.

    The Alawite puppet master who is working Joe's strings may have designated that equipment for eventual use against Israel in the future.
     
  18. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    It's hard to imagine it's part of a plan. General incompetence seems the most likely reason than Syrian influence. Although I'm sure if Iran made a request like that to save JCOPA, Biden would hop to it.
     
  19. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    My respect for our military hasn't diminished one iota. I think it is the best of our secular nation in every regard.
     
  20. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I personally haven't seen any change in the general public's respect towards us. I still can't stop by the grocery store after work without at least someone coming to shake my hand or thanking me in there. The only people I see who don't respect the military are the same ones who have never respected us which are the same ones who's opinions I genuinely couldn't care less about anyway. The general public is smart enough to know who actually controls us and they know anybody they actually see walking around society is nowhere near the people who are out here actively making these recent stupid decisions. No matter how high ranking the person is you see walking around the grocery store in town they are still WAY down on the totem pole in the grand scheme of things when it comes to policy making and orders that actually matter. Don't see too many 4 Stars or high ranking DoD civilians walking in public.

    Thankfully at least for now the public seems to understand that "we" have no control over anything. When the powers at be say go we go regardless of who is in charge. Plus we don't actively deal with the public in any official capacity like the cops do so when the government puts out stupid mandates and policies "we" aren't the ones who have to go around pissing everybody off and making them hate us. We go out and piss off other nations citizens.

    What I will say is that part of the general public may have lost confidence in the overall effectiveness of the US military on the world stage and I don't particularly blame them. As of RIGHT NOW I believe such sentiments are unwarranted because the old guard is still around to pick up the slack. Fast forward a decade or so and I honestly have no idea. Every generation says it about the next generation I know but this is something different. I've never seen anything like these kids nowadays and I'm just glad that I'll be retired when they grow up to take control of the military.
     
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  21. Nightmare515

    Nightmare515 Ragin' Cajun Staff Member Past Donor

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    I think a much better explanation would be that some Americans are losing confidence in the military under specific leadership. As it stands now in 2022 the US military is still the most powerful fighting force in the history of mankind by a long shot. And we still maintain the ability to literally remove entire nations from the planet if we so desire even without bringing nukes into the discussion. We are way better equipped now and more powerful than we were in Desert Storm. And lets face it, Desert Storm was primarily a shot across the bow to the entire world after the fall of the Soviet Union to let everybody know that we can and will **** you up. We just needed a half assed excuse to go test out all of our new toys on somebody to see just how quickly we could **** you up. But at the end of the day the US military is still a war machine controlled by elites who actually pull the strings.

    What the US military needs is proper leadership and proper troops to continue that reputation. The world isn't stupid, everybody knows what the US military is capable of, the "game" is played based on who is actually in control of the US military at any given point in time. You'll notice the lack of games played on the world stage when there are leaders in charge of the US military who don't play games. Did anybody else notice the sharp decline in Russian jets harassing our Carrier Battle Groups in 2017? I did.
     
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  22. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You hit the nail on the head about Leadership. We don't have any. I'm glad I got out recently. Our current leaders are more worried about having diversity training and "sensitivity seminars" than focused on any enemy of the United States. I almost lost rank laughing in a "sensitivity briefing". lol

    Our top brass are the laughing stock of any military. The military isn't supposed to coddle someone that is scared to fire a weapon. It's supposed to turn that person that VOLUNTEERED into the greatest warrior in the world. We don't have that now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
  23. ArmySoldier

    ArmySoldier Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The "power rankings" of the military that says we are the greatest in the world are based on numbers of warriors, weapon systems, aircraft carriers, nukes...etc. What isn't listed is how wussified our leaders and now our soldiers have become. Believe it or not, it makes a difference.
     
  24. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure that simply a change of leadership at the top would turn things around. The endemic problems that lead to our rout from Afghanistan took place over twenty years of various Presidents and multiple military leadership both in and out of the theater of operations. The military seemed to have to start from scratch in fighting an insurgency even though there is a history of fighting insurgencies in the past.

    For me, this is a "this time is different" moment. The US Army has always started wars from a disorganized, political, peacetime era and eventually gets it's act together, gets rid of the deadwood, and becomes an efficient (relatively) fighting force. This time, we didn't do that. In some ways the troops on the ground and their training is better since we did integrate lessons on the ground into training. But unlike previous wars, we didn't prune the deadwood, it got promoted, and the peacetime nonsense concerns didn't go away, they got bigger. The foolishness over the ACFT and the fact that we spent billions on multiple uniform changes is an indicator that we had a lot of leadership with a lot of time on their hands in the midst of a war. If a war, and losing a war pretty badly, won't bring a military force to seriousness, I don't know what will.
     
  25. AARguy

    AARguy Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with your post, especially your comments about that Marine LTC... he's a hero in my book. In 1975 I will attend my West Point 50th Class Reunion. I expect my classmate Lloyd Austin to be there. I am still tryting to figure out if I should spit in his eye or just avoid him.
     
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