Not to me you aren't And "six degree of separation" does not give you the right to stop women from doing what they want with thier bodies
That's not what I was getting at. If the family members were valued members of the family unit and their opinions count, then surely the fetus must have a special place in the family unit too and be valued, if the woman is not capable of making the choice.
Of course there's that pro-choicer argument, which some pro-choicers choose to try to make, but there are other pro-choice arguments as well. So not the end of the story. And yes, obviously if the fetus were like a lifeless clump of tissue, all the other pro-life arguments would be rendered a moot point. Which is kind of interesting because in the past when I've brought up strong arguments to the contrary, most of the pro-choicers seemed to try to shift the argument to something else instead of deal with it directly. (i.e. "It doesn't matter if the fetus is a person, because even if it were it still wouldn't have rights", while switching around and using "It doesn't matter if it would have rights in the womb, it's not a person" in another thread. )
They’re not separate arguments. The fetus doesn’t have any rights because it’s not a person, even if it did have rights it’s rights would not would not take precedence over the mothers. No ones changing the argument. Your presenting a dilemma where the mother is no longer cognizant as a point to go around the latter reason. We’re saying that the first reason is still why your wrong. And I’m still waiting for an answer for why a fetus has rights.
And so I'm just trying to address one pro-choice argument at a time. It would be a lot easier if pro-choicers weren't always trying to shift to the other argument every time when they are feeling cornered in debate. It almost feels like pro-choicers are essentially making argument: "It's not worth arguing over because there are TWO arguments" There are plenty of threads on this, if you care to look for them.
I did make it easy to follow one sentence why. You claim that a fetus has rights I want to know how it’s a simple question. You’re just dodging at this point.
I can't believe I'm being expected to put together an argument why a fetus kicking inside its mother should be considered a person. Maybe you should more closely reexamine your request? (and your moral compass?)
Do you want to discuss why the fetus should be considered a person, or why a person growing inside of the womb would have rights? I'm not answering your simple question because I'm 100% certain if I give a simple answer you'll doge it, by trying to deflect into a more specific argument. Tell me which specific aspect of this you want to discuss, or we can start a thread about it.
Because of YOUR OP: """"""When the mother can feel it kicking in there, it's TOO LATE to get an abortion. Now, can most pro-choicers agree with this?"""""""" Maybe you should more closely reexamine your request? (and your moral compass?)
Quit dodging why you think a fetus is a person with rights. What rights does it have? Does it have the right to use another's body to sustain it's life? A right NO ONE ELSE HAS!!!!
NO, there isn't. The fetus has no rights. Yup, it pretty much is especially since NO ONE has ever proven fetuses have rights. Yes, even IF a fetus had rights the rights of the woman it's in would override any perceived rights of the fetus.
It seems to me there's been threads which made a very strong solid argument why a fetus should have rights if it were a person, and other threads which really made the fetus look like a person and were difficult to argue with. What you're claiming doesn't exist is both of those put together in the same thread. 2+3=5 and there's already plenty of 2s and 3s.
I have said all along that a fetus has rights but the woman's trumps the fetus. To make an ethical decision the woman's wishes and the fetal rights must be considered.
FoxHastings said: ↑ Yup, it pretty much is especially since NO ONE has ever proven fetuses have rights. No, there wasn't, NO solid arguments at all... and certainly NONE that ever proved they did have rights. It was only your imagination....
I didn’t ask you either. I asked why a fetus would have rights. If you want to start another thread go for it. But when you claim that a fetus can kick it has the right to live, asking where the fetus gets this right is a relevant question.