Capitalism is economic tyranny Socialism is economic democracy.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Sackeshi, Nov 25, 2022.

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Is Socialism and Democracy better than Capialism?

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    15.4%
  2. No

    33 vote(s)
    84.6%
  1. Sackeshi

    Sackeshi Well-Known Member

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    Under Capitalism one is not free, in fact the vast majority are stuck in a system not unlike indentured servitude of the past.

    Your employer holds your lively hood in their hands. Not agreeing to their every demand can mean you are out of a home because you can't pay rent or mortgage/property tax. It could mean you lose your vehicle because you can't make payments. It could mean you can't afford to feed your family because you can't buy food, it could mean medical bankruptcy because you lose your insurance.

    Sure you can unionize but the law is awful at protecting against retaliation. Just look at Starbucks. You can assert your rights but they can just come up with a different reason or no reason at all. You can say its my day off I'm not coming in. They could find a replacement.

    Not to mention that under Capitalism employers hire for the lowest rate possible. If they can fill every role on minimum wage they will. We work to bring profit to the top 1%-5% of the country. While they sit in an airconditioned office the people building in the heat or working on the front lines making the product come to life get scraps.

    A socialist alternative
    • No private sector- Everything from farming, to food, to energy, public safety, transportation, construction, technology are all public sector. Not a command economy per say but a price controlled one. The costs would be labor and material only.
    • Total Unionization- Every sector and job would have a union that would make sure everyone gets paid the maximum they can and the maximum benefits. Ideally the effective minimum wage would be $25/h without inflation as costs would stay low since profit margins only go to the employees not managers and CEOs.
    • Labor Courts- Every employee would have the right to appeal their firing and the employer would need to prove they were fired for a proper reason. Only clear violations of policy agreed on by the union would be legal.
    • Affordable housing- No more landlords leaching off of their tenants no suburbs simply Netherland style apartment's for a MAXIMUM of 20% someone's salary. With walk able areas
    Under Socialism there is a still a market economy and people can still create new things and get more money than others the difference is that workers not managers control production and get the fruits of their labor. With Lower prices, and better pay, no one goes homeless or hungry, their is less waste and everyone has a say in the part of their life that takes up 1/2 of waking hours.
     
  2. Condor060

    Condor060 Banned Donor

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    That would be the entitled view of Capitalism meaning those who think they are owed a living.
    Surprise, you're not owned anything

    Capitalism is based on individual initiative and favors market mechanisms over government intervention, while socialism is based on government planning and limitations on private control of resources and people.

    The entitled love socialism as they don't have to compete. They want government control of their lives as well as government control of the economy which guarantees them a level of success. The entitled believe the government should control their rent, their food, their vehicle, and medical cost and they believe they are entitled to a guaranteed success. Yet those same entitled are ignorant of history where socialism has failed everywhere its been tried but still believe their socialism is different.

    If those same entitled thought Socialism was so great, they would move to a country that supports it. Yet they don't. Which means they really don't want socialism, they want to be paid like everyone else for just thinking they are entitled to it.

    Most people prefer to be recognized for the talents and efforts to move up the in Capitalism world and not be told by the government what they can and can't do. This gives them more value and businesses compete for their knowledge and skills. Meaning, they hold their own futures in their own hands. The entitled want the same thing but believe they are owed the same thing just because they are entitled. And when the entitled actually enter the real world they find out it isn't rainbows and lolly pops like Mommy and Daddy told them so they want to change the system.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022
  3. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

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    This is another loaded poll. Under socialism, ultimately there is no democracy. A comparatively small number of government officials control everything of consequence.
     
  4. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Pure unadulterated hogwash. Capitalism is the epitome of individual freedom and liberty. Involuntary servitude is the essence of socialism.
     
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  5. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No need to be so binary. Regulated capitalism, like what we have in the US, has its flaws but is a million miles away from tyranny.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022
  6. Sackeshi

    Sackeshi Well-Known Member

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    Can you afford to risk losing your job to refuse coming in on your time off?
     
  7. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    The problem with any ideology is ideologues.
    "Socialism" as a concept has practical features. History shows that pursued as an end it itself it hasn't worked out well.
    "Capitalism" did not start as an ideology, just a method of doing things. It has advantages over what went before. History shows its excesses are to be avoided. Those who want to make it into an ideology often mistake fundamentals of psychology.
    Socialism and capitalism, as with any human institutions, work well or poorly depending upon how they are accepted by the majority.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022
  8. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    Are you referring to capitalism or socialism?
     
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  9. Sackeshi

    Sackeshi Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism. Can you afford not to get paid
     
  10. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The history of capitalism in the US is there were successful attempts to reign in the excesses. It's why regulated capitalism has worked here.
     
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  11. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What society thrives if people aren't "getting paid," implying they aren't working?
     
  12. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    If I don't get paid extra and overtime for refusing to come to work on my day off? Of course. And it is good that I won't get arrested for fefusing to come to work whenever called.
    No economic system works unless society (government) establishes the playing rules. The rub comes when the rules are hundreds or thousands of times more numerous than the very few, but necessary, are.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2022
  13. Sackeshi

    Sackeshi Well-Known Member

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    If your boss said come in or get fired could you afford to get fired? Can you afford a major medical emergency?
     
  14. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Right wing talking points remain, as they ever were, unconvincing.
     
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  15. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    This is getting too far in the weeds for a high level discussion of socialism and capitalism.
     
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  16. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Donor

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    It's called macro management versus micro management, like the Constitution. KISS and it works better.
     
  17. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    Capitalism is economic tyranny Socialism is economic democracy

    The opposite is true.
     
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  18. David Landbrecht

    David Landbrecht Well-Known Member

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    Neither is "true".
     
  19. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some animals live in the wild and fight for survival every day. Other animals live in the zoo, where they are provided for. While sheep would stay in the zoo even of the gates were open, the eagles would rather take their chances and take to the sky.

    Its not that socialism and capitalism are good or bad; its whether one is an eagle or sheep.
     
  20. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    "Under capitalism, man exploits man; under socialism, it's the other way around."
     
  21. JohnHamilton

    JohnHamilton Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because if your employer is a jerk or an ogre, you can quit and work for someone else. Under socialism, you work for the government. It is the only employer. It can pay crap wages, and even make you work for nothing as the old Soviet Union did during its Service to the States days. If you complained, you could end up in jail or worse.

    If you want see what socialism becomes in its pure state, study the systems in the Soviet Union, Red China, North Korea and Cuba.
     
  22. ECA

    ECA Well-Known Member

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    I’ll take capitalism over socialism every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
     
  23. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Hard to argue with that logic :roll::roflol:
     
  24. expatpanama

    expatpanama Active Member

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    OK, what are we talking about when we say the word "socialism". The two most well known examples of "socialism" are what we had w/ Soviet Socialism and National Socialism. Both were totalitarian states.

    There's never been a nation or political party w/ the word "Capitalism". Virtually all nations have markets which are subject to varying degrees of government control. Yeah, so the Pope said he didn't like "unfettered capitalism" --that's never existed and the reason it has never existed is the fact it's impossible in real life. Markets can not function w/o governments nearby to enforce contracts and keep order.
     
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  25. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Dunno? Ask the poster I quoted ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     
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