Capitalism is economic tyranny Socialism is economic democracy.

Nobody in their right mind would call for "democracy taken to an absolute extreme".

Well . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Wait a minute.

There are people who identify as "anarco-capitalists" and what they mean and want is a system in which there is no government and no authorities and no police or courts or other "state" functions, and where the majority of the population is "righteous" and will make sure everything is kept fair and honest and legitimate. So yeah, maybe there are some other idiots who would call for "democracy taken to an absolute extreme". Maybe.

 

The seizure of the means of production by the state, which in theory is all people, instead of it being in the hands of a select few, and the social structure that accompanies that.

Communism, in theory, is democracy of the economy, but it doesn't work out that way because of human nature, that you need massive organization, and thus leaders, and the fact that power corrupts.

 

Wait wait wait. Are you talking about "communism the ideology and political process to create socialism", or are you talking about "communist society"? Looks like it could be either.

 

The same. Social and economic structure.

 

So basically the system we've used for almost all of human history?

 

Ok, on close reading it looks like in the first sentence you mean "the seizure of the MoP by a communist party implementing communist policy to create a socialist society."

And in the second sentence it looks like you're saying "communist theory in the hands of a communist party is theoretically democratic, but human nature prevents it from being realized because of scale and the corrupting character of power."

You're heading down the right path, mostly, but since the collapse of socialism in the USSR and China as the two main, most notable cases, socialist around the world have analyzed the events and the reasons for the failures are now known. And being known, it is possible to resolve and avoid those problems next time. And the problem wasn't human nature. It was lack of organization at the most fundamental levels, which led to a dependence on authorities, bosses, leaders, and their corrupting influences.

 

The problem is ALWAYS human nature.

It's right in front of you, and in your own words. That 'lack of organisation' IS human nature, acting against the idea. We can know this is true because there is nothing at all stopping 'workers' from establishing enterprises. NOTHING.

That means the majority of workers are not interested. Human nature.

 

And one wonders why the Great Depression lasted until 1948.

 

There has never been a social security fund. All taxes (and fees, such as FDIC fees) go straight to the Treasury general fund. The idea of a "lockbox" or that the Democrats or Republicans were raiding Social Security is a complete fraud, as the program has always been a welfare scheme with an indirectly associated tax to make it look legit.

 

And, when what they are working on fails and they lose money, who is going to be forced to support them? They certainly aren't going to vote for layoffs, so they'll simply produce useless junk.

Socialism has no theory of wealth creation. It's a normative (ie. moralistic) economic framework that must be violently imposed on everyone.

 

Yes one does considering the great depression never started in the soviet union.

It's rather simple actually, the capitalist system allowed for people to put money into stocks and use those stock (fake money) as real money, when the stock market crash happened the whole economy collapsed because the capitalist banks had gambled everyones money. So people quickly traded their money in for gold, without enough reserves to pay everyone back, and the lack of actual money in circulation the price of the dollar doubled making the deflation worse. Basically it was run away until FDR made the first real public sector in US history to turn everything around.

 

1. What do you believe is wealth?

2. What do you believe is the means by which wealth is created?

3. What is the socialist theory of wealth creation?

 

Wealth is anything of monitary value that can be traded for or used as money. Examples: Currency, gold and silver and other metals.

Either from the government or the mining of metals. The government can determine how much currency is in circulation.

The socialist theory of wealth is that workers not owners control enterprise.

 

Wealth is an abundance of valuable material possessions or resources.

Wealth is created mostly by production of goods and services and by developing resources.

Same as any other: wealth is created by creating value.

 

How would you know?

The economy would have been just fine if the ruling class hadn't interfered. The same sort of ruling class that sent millions to the gulags, and to their deaths, in the Soviet Union.

So, tell me, what is the socialist theory of wealth creation?

 

Incorrect.

But only if they are of value to others. How do you know if they are of value to others?

Not the "same as any other". The capitalist theory of wealth creation is the ability to efficiently transform resources (factor inputs) into desired goods and services. The key is efficiency, which requires private property and the division of labor, as well as profit-maximizing behavior of firms and the entrepreneur. The creation of wealth is based on knowledge -- the ability to take raw inputs and convert them into output with value greater than the sum of the individual parts. Socialism cannot overcome the knowledge problem, for as you as say, its sole theory of wealth creation is "make stuff."

 

I can agree with you on that because had he not done anything socialists or communists would have come to power in the US.

The same way as capitalism only the proletariat control wealth not the landlords and bourgeoisie.

 

No, they wouldn't have.They didn't have the military behind them.

So, you don't know. It just arises automagically?

It baffles me that some people want to shove their morals down the throats of others but really don't know, or care, what the result of their authoritarian dreams would entail.

 

Their strength is not their best asset, their brains are.

Garbage.

Nope. The way modern humans defeated all the competing hominids was by recognizing the natural individual rights others, specifically the rights to life, liberty, and property in the fruits of their labor.

No, there is a sociopathic remnant that can survive by equilibrium parasitism, like cuckoos. More to the point, the way people mainly help the community is by raising children to independence and engaging in productive labor to relieve the chronic problem of scarcity. The best and most accurate incentive to do the latter is a private property right in what one produces.

No. That is not how evolution works. Some have no useful role to play, and their genes are not favored for survival.

That may be true, and it is one reason America dominates economically.

That is factually incorrect. The forcible removal of people's natural individual rights to liberty by private landowners long antedated capitalism. It's described both in the Bible and pre-Biblical sources, but reached its most advanced stage in the Roman Empire, where just 2000 individuals owned 90% of the land. The Roman legal institutions that made land into private property for the first time in history became the basis of feudalism.

No. The reason landless laborers endured worse conditions under early capitalism than contemporaneous serfs or slaves was that unlike the serfs, their rights to use land to survive had been removed without compensation, and unlike slaves, they were not valuable assets with self-interested owners.

But when you blame employers for what landowners do to workers, you can never understand why the system is awful.

GARBAGE. It was socialism and its whole evil mechanism of using force to compel economic action that put those totalitarian rulers in power.

Because thanks to the war and then the Revolution, the Russian economy had shrunk by half from the level before WW I.

There was no pre-totalitarian North Korea, and the north was already the industrial region under Japanese occupation because it had the minerals.

Wrong. Countries with low rates of inequality tend to have low rates of violent crime, but that's largely because criminals can't see many appealing targets.

Yet many of the most prolific criminals have come from good lives.

They aren't hybrid, they are capitalist.

I've said no such thing.

Production requires that people have the ability to produce (right to life), the liberty to produce (right to liberty) and the incentive to produce (right to property in the fruits of one's labor). Socialism largely removes the latter two.

We already have the proof that geoism performs better than capitalism, let alone socialism.

 

First show me you know what socialism is.

 

I'm reminded of the Stamford prison experiment.

Humans do some pretty messed up things in the pursuit of organization. Any universal system that commands an end result will produce lots of messed up methods to produce that result.

 

0 for 3...

 

So the roles will simply reverse. How does that help?

 

Which version? Your WoE version which is available to anyone who wants it NOW, yet no one does seem to want? Or the essential collectivism currently lived by billions of humans voluntarily and happily?

 

Tom Cotton Tells Kroger To Go To Hell.

Tom Cotton's Response to Woke CEO Looking for Republican Help Is Fire



Cotton was 'hearing the proposed merger between grocery giants Kroger and Albertsons. Democrats want to stop the merger and Kroger’s' Woke 'CEO called for help from Republicans.'

Kroger Woke Clowns are force-feeding '“diversity and inclusion” training and forced “allyship” making employees wear gay pride logos.' And if employees refuse, firing them. But, they also want the GOP to ally with them when they want to merge or get a tax break or other favorable treatment.

Well, Mr. Cotton has some frank words for the Woke bastards: Click here to see it.

The Woke Crony Capitalists can go straight to hell.