Capitalism Is Not The Most Efficient System Ever Devised By Man

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by resisting arrest, Jun 3, 2016.

  1. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    The government is owned by the wealthy, who do you think it is going to serve? The great lie of liberalism is that government works in the interest of the working class. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
    The U.S. with $63.5 trillion in total private wealth is the richest country in the world. But that wealth is unevenly distributed in the U.S., which also has the largest wealth inequality gap of 55 countries.
    This kind of wealth disparity in a wealth country does not happen by chance, it takes the manipulation of the system perpetrated by government.
     
  2. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Those that have the best ratings by their populations. Places like Denmark and the Netherlands come to mind but obviously with some adaptions to suit the USA.
     
  3. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    30 years ago, I went to Venezuela to manage a contract job. The day before I got there- riots killed 500 and martial law was declared. Socialism had failed. I left, the country tried to revise it's socialist system. Today, they have a two day work-week. Not because it's working, but because they can only supply power to factories and stores about two days a week. Inflation was 56% last year, worse now. Basic commodities like bread are rare. The current leadership vows to continue to pursue the socialist policies of the last one.

    This is a beautiful country with many resources and good people- but a totally stupid government that refuses to abandon failed ideology.

    Never happens under democratic socialism? Just check up on today's Venezuela- it's happening now, like a long-term horror movie.
     
  4. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So it's not poverty that concerns you but 'wealth disparity'. Is that correct?
     
  5. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    "Petit bourgeoisie" means small shopkeepers. Marx was actually rather inclined to like them but he didn't appreciate the way they saw themselves as part of the bourgeoisie and thus acted against their own interests. They had very little to do with the peasants, who were a separate class of their own

    You really should study the things you spout off about before you embarrass yourself with such inaccurate drivel. Most people who know anything about modern history stopped reading as soon as they saw this.
     
  6. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you want to adopt the same political processes as Denmark, for example, or the same social programs? Denmark is a Constituional Monarchy. Would you suggest the US become the same and no longer be a Republic?

    A contributing factor seems to be that

    "Transparency and accountability" are not high priorities in the American political culture because of party loyalties often taking precedent. I would also suggest that there is more emphasis on education in Denmark whereas the educational system in the US has become political and no longer make the top list. This could account for the indifference toward the 'transparency and accountability', issues necessary for any successful society.. http://studyindenmark.dk/news/danish-education-ransk-12th-in-global-study
     
  7. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    I am bothered by both. What really bothers me is the theft of peoples labor and the fruits of it....
     
  8. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Central and South America have ideal climates, for the most part, are strategically situated, have a hard working populace but are always on the brink of civil war and starvation. The common factor among all of them is a strong and inept bureaucracy, leaders who promise more socialism (and are supported by international leftists), and a third rate educational system. One of the few exceptions to this pattern was Chile and of course the architect to this new Chile was internationally denounced as a right wing extremist.

    When Socialism fails, as it inevitably must, the response is often for more and greater Socialism.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Are you complaining of high tax rates or a hike in the minimum wage? Can you be more specific?
     
  9. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There was no spouting off, and if there were inaccuracies that was an opportunity for you to point them out. The poster certainly did not embarrass himself.
     
  10. CausalityBreakdown

    CausalityBreakdown Banned at Members Request

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    You, too, believe in the usage of state authority. Capitalism requires the state monopoly on violence. Without the policeman, there is nobody to stop the workers from saying "We're the ones who keep this place running, we do all of the work, we are not going to give you the fruits of our own labour" to their boss. The primary function of the police is political violence, the protection of the innocent from violent crimes is nothing but a post-hoc justification.

    I believe that the only way that we can achieve a non-violent social order is by using violence against itself: To fight the violent and oppressive powers at work in society and finally put them to rest. When the state is owned by the workers, the government can be run democratically and the economy can be run democratically.

    You have to understand that I make no distinction between public and private (capitalist) authority. I view capitalist libertarianism as totalitarian. The only possible libertarian society is socialist.

    As for Cuba: Cuba is quite a nice place. Despite their embargo they've managed to have the highest quality of life in Latin America. Unfortunately, I fear that they may be succumbing to revisionism due to some recent changes in government.
     
  11. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    - - - Updated - - -

    Both, the income tax is slavery, and the government has no legal power to regulate the labor of free people.
     
  12. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, there are many who want to do away with income tax and create a 'flat tax' or something more simplified. Many variations have been tried. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0005921.html
     
  13. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Jessica Christos, can you be a LITTLE honest here? Venezuela's problems may indeed be due to Socialism in a greater or lesser degree but to act as if the nearly catastrophic decline in their oil exports, which had been providing over 90% of their revenue, has had NO effect on them is to simply invite the rejection of your entire treatise as nothing but ideologically motivated drivel, which it is in fact, since it has NO numbers or statistics but simply says Socialism=bad, and then proceeds to blame everything on it while ignoring other, and far more proximate, causes

    OK, maybe I was a bit harsh, but you shouldn't try beginning a historical argument with a statement that shows a pretty big misunderstanding of the history in question. You especially shouldn't conflate Maoism and Leninism, particularly when you started off by confusing both of them with Marxism. These are very related, that is true, but if you try to say they're the same you simply throw away most of the your argument's intellectual underpinning at the very begiinning
     
  14. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    Something you don't seem to understand. Capitalism is not a system devised by man, it is the natural way trading has been done for thousands of years. The "rules" are logical- a willing seller and a willing buyer agree on a trade of goods or service, and the exchange is done. The fairness or justness of this process is, as it should be- up to those making the deal. Both are free to act in their own best interests, and the only people affected by their decisions are themselves. Almost every regulated form of economy other than free-market capitalism winds up damaging people who shouldn't be, taking control away from the people actually involved, and in some way serving others who shouldn't be involved at all. Capitalism is self regulated by the fact it is competitive, and the supply-demand factor will always keep values close to a balance.

    All other systems are methods attempting to manipulate the economic process artificially for some political objective- invariably for the benefit of some at the cost of others. Doing this is similar to our efforts to "improve" nature and in the process frequently doing more damage than good. Capitalism in the true sense is the only form of economic trade that is not a manipulative game.
     
  15. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why should a drop in oil prices effect the country so badly? They've dropped everywhere but there is still food on the shelves in Canada, Norway, the United States, etc. The fact is that the people in Venezuela had become dependent on oil revenue, not on themselves, and that's what happens under any form of socialism. Freedom of the individual, and the freedom to invest their capital as they see fit, is paramount to the success of any country. Dependency on big government has never been successful anywhere.
     
  16. Taxpayer

    Taxpayer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Given two identical shirts, if it costs more to produce shirt A than shirt B it seems reasonable to say shirt B was produced by a more efficient net process. Even if that process uses more fuel.



     
  17. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    I clearly qualified my statement with "some adaptions to suit the USA" therefore I was not advocating an exact replication of their system of government.

    Political corruption by the Wall Street Casino Bosses has to be curtailed by appropriate regulations. That is the root of the problem and a great place to start IMO.
     
  18. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    What about when Capitalism fails?

    Why is the response always for lower taxes for the wealthy 1% who are the root cause of the failure of Capitalism?
     
  19. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Deregulated "free market" capitalism has harmed hardworking Americans by depriving them of jobs with living wages and benefits while enriching only the 1%.
     
  20. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The US can never be like Denmark, or Norway, because they put their political parties before concerns for corruption. Until the education problems are solved, and the electorate demands honesty from all politicians, there is no hope for anything along the lines of Denmark. The cultures are just too different.

    The problem is not Wall Street. It is the political corruption, and its acceptance, by the people.
     
  21. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    How can the source of the corruption not be the problem?
     
  22. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You'd have to provide your definition of 'Capitalism' and I'll wager it's something negative. You need democracy in order to have capitalism because that's the essence of capitalism.. During the Cold War t was never an argument, as the Soviets claimed, between Capitalism and Socialism, it was the difference between freedom and totalitarianism.

    Do you seriously believe that everyone can be in the top one per cent? Or even the top ten percent? Twenty per cent? Someone has been feeding you some political nonsense if you believe any of that.

    But, in any case, when 'capitalism' fails you can bet that government was involved somewhere along the line.
     
  23. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Whoa! You believe the source of corruption in the US is Wall Street? Is that what a politician told you?
     
  24. erayp

    erayp New Member

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    Capitalism is about expanding the economic pie, not trying to divide a static pie equally.

    https://investorjunkie.com/capitalism-not-zero-sum-game/

    With capitalism the quality of life improves for everyone, not just the elite 1% as some might lead you to believe. The poor in the United States are richer than many other countries. Here is an interesting stat from the Millionaire Next Door, 80% of today’s millionaires in the U.S. are 1st generation wealthy. Unlike what our politicians lead us to believe, most citizens did not inherit their wealth.

    What is your income and wealth compared to the rest of the world
    http://www.globalrichlist.com
     
  25. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

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    The fuel costs are less than what American workers demand. If those shirts were made in the US, the price would be much, much higher and consumers would not be able to purchase very many of them.

    You aren't putting any thought into this at all are you?
     

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