Capitalism Is Not The Most Efficient System Ever Devised By Man

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by resisting arrest, Jun 3, 2016.

  1. erayp

    erayp New Member

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    As a nation, we have arrived at the crossroads.

    - Do we want an angry, incompetent and greedy person like Hillary,
    - a known liar, socialist like Sanders, who means to punish success and promote undeserved entitlement at the expense of others,
    - Trump, who grasps work, business and success and at least believes he can rehabilitate the country debilitated by 7 1/2 years of the Obama?
     
  2. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    First- a job is not an entitlement. It is a capitalistic endeavor, whereby one person sells their services for an agreed on price- exactly the same as you buying a loaf of bread. The employee is in business for himself just as the employer is. However, our social system has chosen to make the employer take all the risk, be an unpaid tax collector and a social service agency- all for the benefit of employees, most of whom have no appreciation of it. Since close to half of all new businesses fail, it should be obvious to anyone that it is not an easy thing, let alone a sure thing. I don't know a single businessman that focuses of keeping anyone poor- but everyone of them want employees that will earn what they are paid and agreed to work for.

    All employees are free to sell their services anywhere they wish, at any price they can. If nobody is willing to pay them the price they would like to get, perhaps the services are just not worth as much as they think they are. Nobody deprives you of a job. If a person's services will make the employer money and make his business run better, he would be a fool not to hire him. Fools don't survive long in business.

    It's interesting to note that many immigrants to this country came with nothing, sometimes not even the ability to speak english- and 10 years later have a home, cars, quite often businesses, and are sending their children to college. They found opportunity, while many Americans are seeking entitlement. Attitude matters, and the right one empowers you, while the wrong one imprisons you.
     
  3. erayp

    erayp New Member

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    Think about it... government forces employers to give them too much money instead of using it to grow business which leads to hiring more people. They can't spend / invest / pay money they no longer have.

    Open your mind, get off the hate the rich bandwagon. Your hatred is causing you to believe in rhetoric and policies that ends up hurting you.
     
  4. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    They are the same for everyone.

    If you want to take those pathetic people and lead them by the hand each second of the day so they make the right/best choices, then go right ahead, but don't expect me to fund your little adventure.
     
  5. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Decades in financial regulation has demonstrated time after time that when the Wall Street Casino Bosses bribe politicians to deregulate any sector there will be greed and exploitation by the 1% followed by an economic reversal that only harms hardworking Americans.

    The S&L crisis, the Contract ON America, the repeal of Glass-Steagall are all examples of that happening and the facts and the data are indisputable.

    The source of the corruption is clearly visible in Citizens United and the subsequent damage that has caused to the political process.

    Denial of this reality won't alter it one iota. As the old saying goes, follow the money if you want to find out who is behind the problem and it ALWAYS leads right back to the Wall Street Casino Bosses.
     
  6. Derideo_Te

    Derideo_Te Well-Known Member

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    Tr(oll)mp is an incompetent, greedy, lying crook who is clueless about how to run this nation and will cause more harm than good. Even his own party knows that and is trying to find ways to ensure that he won't be elected.

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    Yet another rendition of the extremist rightwing blame the victim song? :eekeyes:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Assumes facts not in evidence.
     
  7. spiritgide

    spiritgide Well-Known Member Donor

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    "Yet another rendition of the extremist rightwing blame the victim song? :eekeyes: "

    Why, of course it is. The idea that each person would actually take responsibility for their own lives, make their own decisions, pay their own bills, be accountable for their own actions?
    Ludicrous. Has to be some kind of rightwing conspiracy.
     
  8. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm perfectly happy to have a collaborative society. We can all get along. Problem is this tendency to move to ever larger sovereign bodies - it permits no diversity of politics.

    Local communities are the go. 200 people.
     
  9. heresiarch

    heresiarch Well-Known Member

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    Nope. The number of avaiable places is limited and certain people are always preferred to the others. If opportunities are the same why are you not a succesful manager or a movie star yet?
     
  10. Russ103

    Russ103 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Economics 101 elude you, as is made clear by your ignorance filled post.

    Good luck to you in life, you'll need it.
     
  11. dixon76710

    dixon76710 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, as long as the wage differential is greater than the shipping costs, it is more efficient to manufacture the product in China.
     
  12. CausalityBreakdown

    CausalityBreakdown Banned at Members Request

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    How would you feel about a socialist society that governed using local councils and direct democracy?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Actually, I'm restating the famous arguments Lenin made in State and Revolution with less jargon. I understand how capitalism works. That's why I'm a socialist. Hell, look around you. Microsoft is tricking people into using their new OS which has been proven by many sources to contain spyware, Coca-Cola hires mercenary death squads to kill strikers in Latin America, and basically everything you've ever been told about the invisible hand of the market can be easily demonstrated to be false.

    You haven't responded to any of my points, you just performed the verbal equivalent of putting your tail between your legs and running off.
     
  13. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Confusing outcome with opportunity eh?
     
  14. erayp

    erayp New Member

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    Ludicrous is ....and according to Bernie, that all of this costs us practically nothing. Almost all of it would be paid for with new taxes on corporations and the rich. In Bernie's world, corporations and affluent investors would not pass along these costs to consumers. They would just take the hit and keep providing goods and services at the same cost as before. LOL.
     
  15. heresiarch

    heresiarch Well-Known Member

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    Lower chance of good outcome equals to lower opportunity. For example, how could a man on a wheelchair become good at sports, or a man who had not attended school become a businnessman.
     
  16. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfortunately, that's hogwash. For capitalism to function, there must always be poor people. They are the ones that do the labor that allow upper classes to enjoy the benefits of capitalism. Knowing that there must always be poor people in order for it to function kind of makes attacking poor people seem misguided. Would you attack the foundation of your home saying it should have been a roof instead? Of course not. Your home needs a foundation to stand. Similarly, attacking the bedrock of capitalism in an attempt to defend capitalism shows you don't really understand capitalism or would at least prefer to live under an incorrect picture of what it actually is and how it actually works.
     
  17. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Go for it :)
     
  18. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Clearly your example is distasteful to you but you describe nothing about capitalism's economic efficiency. If you're interested in ideology and social structure according to some theory you would have a point about capitalism. If you are interested in an efficient economy that provides the best opportunity for every individual and for the state then capitalism is the only game in town.
     
  19. RodB

    RodB Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I lived in the Washington DC area when thousands on Vietnamese refugees arrived almost penniless with no knowledge of America or the English language. 15 to 20 years later most high school valedictorians were Vietnamese.
     
  20. resisting arrest

    resisting arrest Well-Known Member

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    These were CIA agents. They were welcomed with anti-communist aid and support.

     
  21. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  22. Junkieturtle

    Junkieturtle Well-Known Member Past Donor

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  23. Fred C Dobbs

    Fred C Dobbs Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I doubt I'd be the first person to tell you that the poor will always be with us, especially if the definition is determined by percentages. Using this method anyone having less than others is 'poor' rather than just having less.
    Those who don't have enough to support their families should not have families. Or they can look for training, better education, improved budgeting, etc. Having 'enough to support your families' is not a given in life. Instead it comes under the heading of 'personal responsibility', an unfamiliar concept to many it seems.

    If you've ever worked for a living you've probably noticed that some employees are more competent than others. These are gold to employers and will be rewarded acordingly. And, as in the school system, some will work hard and succeed where others will be slackers and fail and/or drop out. School, sports, employment and business are all areas where we see success and failure. There is no way in the world to equalize outcomes in any of these areas and the idea that we can should be discouraged.

    Even these 'low wage earners' have become more expensive and has led to greater automation, especially in the fast food industry. They are low wage earners largely because they are low skilled employees. The idea then is to make yourself more valuable to an employer in order to make more money, a time honored principle. These low paying jobs are a starting point in most people's lives on the way to something better and were never intended to be the mainstay of any modern family.
     
  24. Fangbeer

    Fangbeer Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some folks really struggle with logical arguments.

    Americans want shirts. The amount they want shirts is measured as the value that Americans are willing to pay for shirts. Are you suggesting that Americans are paying too much for shirts? If that's the case it seems to me that it makes logical sense for you to support your own conclusion by starting a business that employs American workers capable of producing shirts for less cost than the Chinese manufactured shirts.

    It's competition that reduces waste.

    But you don't have a shirt business do you? Clearly even you think that your premise is false. Using fuel to ship shirts from China is obviously more efficient than wasting money on the American manufacture of shirts that Americans are unwilling to purchase at a rate that covers the cost of production.
     
  25. Sanskrit

    Sanskrit Well-Known Member

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    Ironic you called something else hogwash when the above is nothing but. For ANY economy to function, there must be WORKERS in various capacities from unskilled up to professionals, inventors, intellectual capital labor and entrepreneurs. Each and every one of those is a "worker." Each and every one of those is a "laborer." The old leftist union label resentment BS "for capitalism to function there must always be poor people" needs to be laid to rest once and for all. By the standards of 100 years ago, the % of actual "poor people" in the US today is a tiny fraction of 1%. That's capitalism, not redistribution, not government, but the kind of capitalism that allows JP Morgan to undertake immense risk to put lighting in everyone's homes... capitalism.

    OTOH the % of purposeful, intentional dependents who have squandered every opportunity laid before them on a silver platter is much higher, 20%+ IME. So no one is "attacking" the poor when they point out that a very large percentage of people in this country have the LUXURY of making PERPETUAL BAD CHOICES. It's a fact you can't change or waffle around. Another fact is that everyone enjoys the "benefits of capitalism" because Donald Trump and Bill Gates are certainly not buying all those Ariana Grande CDs and $10 cellphones at Dollar General. Even our children at all levels have IMMENSE wealth compared to even the recent past compared to families in other parts of the world... capitalism.

    In fact, if you look at the wealthiest countries in the world, you will find one or two of a very short list of conditions. 1. Very high per capita resource wealth (Norway and oil for example); 2. A tiny, homogenous population, low military expense (freeriding on the US and a few other countries) and strict immigration control (Switzerland and Luxembourg for example), AND/OR 3. advanced capital formation mechanics, strong property rights, the rule of law, a republic of some sort, and relatively free markets... the hallmarks of capitalism.

    Anyone with a mind open enough to learn should consider reading "The Wealth and Poverty of Nations" by David Landes, one of the dying breed of legitimate scholars. It was a counterpoint to the nonsense of Jared Diamond's "Guns Germs and Steel" and progeny. People should read both and decide for themselves what is right or not. Rest assured, it's not going to be one of the more recent "Piketty-politicized" types of fake "scholars" or this Wolff joker in the OP.
     

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