Carbon tax...good or bad?

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by slackercruster, Oct 10, 2018.

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  1. slackercruster

    slackercruster Banned

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    Sounds like it is just other tax. The dems claim it is the only thing that will save the planet.
     
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  2. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Carbon tax...good or bad?

    Neither...it is pointless.
     
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  3. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    Its stupid. Its already been completely debunked. All it is is a transer of wealth from companies that by nature don't produce many emmission to companies that do emit. A paper plant fueled by coal power simply goes to a paper plant powered by nuclear and buys their carbon credits. Its still WAAAAAAY cheaper to buy carbon credits from another company than to actually refit your plant with more modern equipment. Net result is no change.

    If you want to really clean up the environment then we need a nuclear program on the scale of the US highway buildapalooza in the 50s.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
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  4. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    William Nordhaus’s work you know he won a Nobel Prize in Economics this year has a simple consideration we should only act on climate change when the cost of doing nothing exceeds the cost of doing something, to first of all see if current consumer shifts for example led to reduced carbon emissions globally and to givchrge e alternative power time to mature. At some point we might need to act then it might be 4% of our national GDP well within our ability to handle if it comes to be a need. Critics who do oppose this sensible wait and see view tend to be moving for radical policies that might do more harm than good and this carbon tax could be bad. Wouldn't it be better to tax polluters and use part of the money for countermeasures to that pollution they cause and some to put into practical technological research long term then perhaps the end result will be reduced.

    My other concern is consumers they might not like to be blamed but if you have a family with three drivers and three cars you're not helping the issue even if one is electric the power to charge the vehicle is likely in say China to come from dirty coal power, so what are you doing, unless people give up a car based life and uses bicycles and mass transit an we restructure how we live to fit a limited ability to move from ones home to other places we aren't going to dent this.

    People aren't ready for the sacrifices that will be needed and until they are by not having a choice nothing is really going to matter we do as a planet. This tax is likely to hurt not help by hiding the truth people need to give up some luxury and convenience long term and soon so perhaps we need to tax cars and trucks with an impact and disposal tax of say 40% added to the price they pay to start.
     
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  5. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    The only thing that will save the planet is a radical change in lifestyle.

    People really like to forget just have much higher fossil fuel consumption is today as opposed to 50 years ago.
     
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  6. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    I bet they try to tax the carbon in yer body also...
     
  7. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry Trump just boosted the ethanol program to sell more ethanol to help out the farmers from the tariff war he started....
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
  8. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I regard a Carbon Tax as being highly vulnerable to a take over by bureaucrats........
    who will turn it into an money making scheme that will accomplish little of what it
    may be originally intended to do.

    I prefer the Carl Cantrell alternative theory on stabilization of the climate..... partly because it also
    directly addresses the threat of rising ocean levels.


    Carl Cantrell.

    Should Sorek 2 be in Australia or California?

     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018
  9. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Monoculture farming is heavily dependent upon fossil fuels, and represents about 18% of total US consumption in fuels, electricity, and petroleum derivatives.

    Ethanol made from farm waste is a good idea, but subsidizing it to the point that human or animal grade food is used is not.
     
  10. Idahojunebug77

    Idahojunebug77 Well-Known Member

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    All modern agriculture is heavily dependent on fossil fuels. The only alternative is to return millions and millions of people to the fields to scatch in the dirt with a hoe.
     
  11. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    Or electricity and organic practices.
     
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  12. Idahojunebug77

    Idahojunebug77 Well-Known Member

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    Farmers must still till the soil before planting, thats difficult to accomplish with electricity and a need that is not addressed with organic practices .
     
  13. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    CO2 is not a pollutant.

    Ignorant leftists are very dangerous people.
     
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  14. Old Man Fred

    Old Man Fred Well-Known Member

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    If you localize agriculture you eliminate most of the transport, and if you do it right most of the waste. Not to mention that my garden doesn't need to be tilled.

    There's a revolution currently going on in the food industry, and I doubt much will be grown outdoors or in the soil for long(for large scale production).
     
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  15. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Definition of a pipe dream
     
  16. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Regressive and politically impossible to implement a tax high enough to significantly reduce CO2 emissions and lower the rate of global temperature increase.
     
  17. AFM

    AFM Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nordhaus does not include the benefits of global warming. Global warming is net beneficial for the next ~ 2 Deg C of warming. The reason that costs will be greater than benefits is the cost of air conditioning. If you want to understand what that feels like visit a large city (pop greater than 1 million). Average temperatures are between 1 - 3 deg C higher than rural areas. People who live in cities do just fine. They aren't keeling over from the heat.
     
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  18. wist43

    wist43 Banned

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    The cost of doing nothing is - nothing, i.e. no cost.

    As CO2 is not a pollutant, it does not drive climate, and it does not drive temperature.

    The only place "run away" global warming exists is in the computer models that are all funded and controlled by governments. And they, of course, have a vested interest in creating crisis.

    Of the 30 some computer models, only 1 is anywhere close to reflecting the actual temperature record - the Russian model.

    So do the governments and UN ever look at what the Russian model has right, and they all have wrong?? No, of course not.

    They dismiss the only reasonably accurate model, and propagate their "scary scenario" models.

    AGM and its spawn "climate change" have never, ever had anything to do with climate or the environment; rather, it is, and always has been about money and political power.
     
  19. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh my, could you provide your link
    The dems claim it is the only thing that will save the planet.
     
  20. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Fwiw... The idea of using markets vs regulation is a conservative idea
    Ie, want to reduce. smoking and drinking? Slap a big tax on them
    Want to reduce imports... slap a tax on them.

    https://www.mercatus.org/publication/regulatory-alternatives

    I wonder if perhaps you object to the goal, rather than the means of achieving the goal
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
  21. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Banned

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    Yes the goal is the issue. Making fossil fuel artificially expensive so we are forced to use more expensive alternative energies all in the name of the latest fad hypothesis to come down the pike is not acceptable
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  22. DennisTate

    DennisTate Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Correct......
    at least by investing in turning deserts green we will be protecting low lying areas from the threat of rising ocean levels.

    And we do have the technology to do this:

    https://www.technologyreview.com/s/534996/megascale-desalination/
    Megascale Desalination
    The world’s largest and cheapest reverse-osmosis desalination plant is up and running in Israel.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  23. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No we will not, we will be wasting time and resources. The "Coastal" areas will become the ocean regardless of vegetation and attempting to irrigate desert has been attempted (without large scale success) for thousands of years across the globe. Perhaps you might do a bit of actual research instead of frequenting ….uh....dubious sources.
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    with this economy, a carbon tax could not be implemented and no one would change anyways

    science is gonna have to be creative and find a way to remove the co2 from the atmosphere that is cheap, maybe tax cuts for those that use reflective roofing
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  25. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    CO2 is but one of the problems.
     

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