Catalan President Carlos Puigdemont ARRESTED in Germany

Nah I read it was only about a third of Spaniards who have reverence towards Franco and his era. Clearly 2/3rd do not. However Spain has only been a democracy for 40 years and one third of the people still supporting the Dictatorship of Franco particularly when we are speaking about Catalonia and how he treated them and tried to destroy their culture and history is deeply concerning. I was interested to hear that 40% of the population of Catalonia come from the rest of Spain and even more interested to learn it had actually been arranged for them to go there much like the Chinese are putting their people into Tibet. The idea of course being to dilute the culture. Someone in the video below pointed out that a Catalin President of Spain would be unthinkable.

OK, seems Catalan has only been pinched by Spain since 1714 and then it only managed it after a siege so really as far as I can work out Spain has always held Catalonia against her will, through force as Ultra has spoken about...but this does not go with democracy.

I've been watching a documentary done in 2012 so a few years ago now but it is on Catalonia which apparently through history was more related to Europe than was Spain. It is mentioned in the video more than once that in Spain and as I said this was a few years ago in 2012 so I suspect it will be worse now, the feeling one gets when people mention the Catalans is similar to what used to be reserved towards Jews in Europe in the 30's. Other people said it reminded them of Yugoslavia before all hell let lose and of course as Ultra has spoken of violence more than once it is concerning that these people may suffer once again.

Matthew Tree who is interviewed a lot in the video thinks that Spanish people seem to identify with Spain almost with a feeling of religious mania and at the front of that is a very strong feeling that they want to be put Catalans in their place but they clearly are an independent people with a history going way back which is independent of Spain.

Another apparent sad fact. Spain is apparently the country in the world which has had the most civil wars.

Here is the documentary I am speaking of if anyone is interested.

 

Ok Spain is trying to put more people in jail for their political views.

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/04/10/inenglish/1523349686_203371.html

Rebelling and terrorism I see. If it doesn't work for leaders abroad just take it out on the people at home.

One good thing I read today. For the first time I have heard that it may not be so by German Law that Puigdemont was 'misusing public funds'

http://www.thenational.scot/politic...es_misuse_of_funds_charge_in_Puigdemont_case/

 

hmmm

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/04/11/inenglish/1523447798_331237.html

Given that Merkel said a couple of weeks ago that Germany will go with what the original court said, this sounds a bit questionable. When process is changed after the result one was hopping for is not attained it suggests something underhand. We shall wait and see.

 

https://elpais.com/elpais/2018/04/05/inenglish/1522936465_073287.html?rel=mas

 

As long as you believe Puigdemont, Trapero and the rest of the separatists, in exile, jail or out on bail, are just righteously trying to apply the democratic will of the majority -you will not be able to understand what the national government in Spain is doing. It is not possible to discuss developments in Catalonia without understanding what the parties are doing or trying to do.

As for Trapero and his fellow indicted officers, you should read up on the transfers of authority from Spain to Catalonia, they are particularly detailed in the field of law enforcement. As the King noted just yesterday; "nobody is above the law."

 

I haven't checked out Trapero but at fist sight it just looked like more of the same but on the rest we obviously have very a different opinion. Even if you believe it is by Spanish law if that law is interfering with people's political rights and arresting them for their democratic political aspirations that is not covered by the EAW

Clara has been to court this morning.

The trial proper will probably take about 2 weeks and will begin 30th July.

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/new...-grotesque-extradition-bid-in-summer-hearing/

I notice that Spanish academics are arguing the Independence of the Judiciary in Spain which I think is one of the things which Clara's lawyer is questioning - not on most things. He accepts that on most things Spain does have Independence of the judiciary but he does not believe that is so with reference to the charges made here.

Her lawyer made a statement after the hearing outlining how they would be dealing with the case.

 

I think it is important to consider the interplay of national and regional law. In the US right now there is controversy over enforcement of Federal immigration law in California as it has declared itself to be a "sanctuary State" and instructed State and municipal law enforcement not to cooperate with immigration authorities. The Federal authorities have brought several legal claims against California seeking judicial determinations the State's actions are contrary to law. There are sensible arguments and plenty of precedent that clearly shows Federal law, particularly on immigration, pre-empts any State or municipal law, the court will eventually find the same.

In Spain the hierarchy of law is very similar to what applies to the US; the Constitucion is the supreme law of the land, no legislation may be contrary to it, all laws must abide by it's provisions. Regional laws like Catalonia's Statute of Autonomy, are the highest law of the region, but still must comply with the provisions of the Spanish constitution. The Spanish constitution provides that no region, province or municipality may in any way threaten national territorial integrity. The regional government under Puigdemont called for and promoted a referendum for the region to secede from Spain, Spain's highest court found this effort illegal and outlawed the referendum, Puigdemont ignored the court's order and took steps to hold the referendum anyway, Spain sent the police to enforce the court's order, then charged named members of the regional government and suspended it's activities applying relevant constitutional provisions. Everything Spain has done strictly complies with it's constitution and relevant laws. The immediate response from the European Union, the OECD, the European Council, United Nations and numerous of their members was to overwhelmingly support Spain's actions.

As the legal process to bring to justice the perpetrators of Catalonia's attempted secession draws out with some evading judicial accountability in foreign jurisdictions, they are promoting the notion somehow Catalonia has a "right" to be independent by virtue of the outlawed referendum. This should be examined carefully, and I believe those who spoke out earliest in support of Spain's actions saw clearly the great harms and huge risk endorsing the Catalonian effort entailed. There are many reasons why no sovereign would like to see an international right to self-determination recognized to any group where a majority support this. There are numerous reasons why acceding to sovereignty should be limited and difficult and these are worth discussing; territorial integrity, national identity, self-defence, credibility, capacity, stability...

I think Puigdemont and his fellow exiles ought to turn themselves in and face the court, that they've drawn enough international attention to the issue Spain could not 'railroad' them with some 'monkey trial'. I think there are genuine issues of law and fact that all Spanish citizens would like to find adjudicated. I know Spain's judiciary is an independent branch of government, that it is not subordinate to the executive or legislative branches and that it is led by very capable judges in proceedings that conform to the highest European standards, there are standards for evidence, the testimony of witnesses, the qualifications of counsel, the laws in Spain are not criticised as repressive, dissent is not suppress, there are no 'gulags', people aren't forced to "re-education" camps... Spain is a modern and fully developed country where human rights are respected, there are advocates for all sorts of liberal causes, the LGBTetc, abortion, environmentalists, handicapped... just like in any western society. If it was evident in a public proceeding that Puigdemont's rights were infringed, the citizens of Spain would express their offense.

 

and overwhelmingly rejected at the local level. That is people were absolutely appalled that the EU, Germany in particular, were basically allowing Spain away with this, given both it's aggression against democracy and the physical aggression of the Militarised Police which Spain put in.

That is not what the charges are on. They are on rebellion and violence and misappropriation of funds.

It was generally seen as not wanting to make waves....but waves which it certainly seemed to me the overwhelming opinion was ought to be being made due to this being an attack on democracy.

Of course there are. You are giving reasons why Spain does not want to let Catalonia have her rights. It seems to me China and Tibet is the most obvious example of doing something similar to what Spain has been doing to Catalonia. Holding basically a country against it's will is not part of democracy and from what I have seen this is basically what has been going on since Spain got control of Catalonia in 1714 after holding it under siege.

Catalonia is not spain: a Historical Perspective

It seems they have been trying to get their sovereignty back since then and continually suffering from it. One of the main parts of a democracy is that it allows people to make changes without resorting to violence. The Catalans and in particular their leadership have been determined they will move by democratic and peaceful means. Puigdemont asked Rajov twice to allow a Referendum with a promise that this would be a one off at least for a generation. If as is claimed there was no hope that they would win then it is very difficult to understand why he would not allow the Catalans to do something which they have the right to do by International law.

https://theconversation.com/self-de...itical-to-argue-otherwise-for-catalonia-86558

They disagree. What it looks like to many on the outside is the determination to imprison people with a political aspiration which Spain does not like for life, letting the people of Catalonia know that any political aspirations they have and have always had for Independence which they try to achieve through democratic means will amount to their incarceration for life. You do not need to re-educate people when your intent is to hold them for their natural life in jail if they have political aspirations you do not agree with.

 

Ms Rovira evidently has a perspective, I suppose her flight did not have an adverse effect on her alleged co-conspirators since she fled after others and before those who remained were arrested, but it should be noted the incarceration of those arrested in Spain (including Oriol Junqueras) was due to Judge Llarena’s sensible appreciation they posed a significant flight risk –since Puigdemont and others had already fled.

I disagree with Rovira’s claim public advocacy for secession entails criminal prosecution in Spain, if anyone can cite a statute or regulation showing so please do. I know advocacy for communism hasn’t been criminal since Franco’s demise (it was when he was alive). Rovira and her co-conspirators have not been charged with “public advocacy for secession”, they’re all charged with sedition, rebellion and misappropriation of public funds.

I expect former members of the regional government will be prosecuted this summer, that they probably won’t be held responsible for both sedition and rebellion since the former is a lesser included offense of the latter, and that in any case these two charges are of subjective regard. Moreover, given the difficulties in securing the extradition of those who’ve fled, the Spanish judiciary may be advised not to seek prosecution on these charges. I think it just depends on how the Constitucion is interpreted.

They’ll also face the charge of misappropriation of public funds and this will be more difficult to overcome as it requires specific evidence I presume Madrid has been able to gather from the regional institutions involved. No doubt spending public funds for an unlawful purpose is misappropriation, the prosecution can expect the court to take judicial notice of the outlawing of the referendum, any money spent on this effort after the Constitutional Court determined a secessionist referendum would be illegal necessarily entails a conviction.

 

The German constitution (Article 79, section 3) forbids all acts of sedition against the federal German government, territorial unity is inviolate. For this reason Germany’s Constitutional Court rejected an appeal brought in 2016 by the Bavarian Party (separatists without representation in the national government) to hold a referendum on Bavaria’s secession. The same happened when the fascitoid and Europhobic AfD party (now the second most powerful in the Saxony-Anhalt regional parliament) expressed it’s separatist formulations. More recently, the German Federal Office of Intelligence has placed under surveillance the activities of the so-called Citizens of the Reich (violent Nazis who don’t recognize the German government).

This all matches perfectly with the determinations made by Spain’s Constitutional Court in September 2017 over two Catalonian government separatist laws and it’s call for a referendum, just as Puigdemont’s unilateral declaration of independence on October 10th last year was. All of this constituted a coup against the democratic and legal order established in Spain under it’s constitution. Anything like this would be absolutely intolerable in Germany and it’s federal government would have to intervene under Article 37 of their constitution (which, incidentally, was the text that inspired the drafters of Spain’s constitutional Article 155).

Spanish and German criminal law on sedition or rebellion is not that different either. In Germany, Article 81 of their Penal Code describes “High Treason against the State” which is severely punished, as are any acts against national unity (see Article 92). So sedition or rebellion are evidently not fantastic concepts developed by repressive Spanish fascists, even in Germany there are laws forbidding separatism. Nonetheless, the German laws require a measure of violence that is shown to have actually weakened their federal government, which is absurd since any court finding this had in fact resulted would need to recognize their capacity to adjudicate the matter had also weakened.

 

The prosecutors Hofmeister mentions are those from Spain and Germany which are meeting at “Eurojust” (the European agency for judicial cooperation) headquarters in The Hague to discuss the application of Spain’s extradition requests. This meeting is not open to the public and both German and Spanish authorities have been quite secretive about it, it is not expected they will issue any announcements on it’s outcome, but will make pertinent adjustments in their respective jurisdictions.

My guess is that Puigdemont will need to pack his bags again, but I'm not sure if he will do this for a trip to Spain or flee eastwards.

 

Catalonia have spoken. They have elected a pro Independence President....not by a lot admittedly, but a win is a win.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...andidate-wins-presidency-180514124625308.html

Meanwhile Clara Ponsati is due to return to court tomorrow. More on her

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...spanish-extradition-case-180514132356134.html


https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/the-charges-nonsensical-exiled-catalan-12519851