Catalonia's parliament backs declaration to split from Spain

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Fallen, Nov 9, 2015.

  1. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    Catalonia’s regional parliament has backed a declaration on Monday to start a formal secession process from Spain. The region plans to establish autonomous rule by 2017.
    The declaration on secession, which launches a so-called roadmap towards independence, was backed by a majority in the regional parliament. The motion was passed by 72 votes to 63, AP reported.

    https://www.rt.com/news/321276-catalonia-parliament-back-independence/
     
  2. Alucard

    Alucard New Member Past Donor

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    But will Spain allow for the secession? Have to wait and see.
     
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  3. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says, "Dat's right - dem Cats in Catalonia want dey's independence...
    [​IMG]
    What happened with Catalonia’s vote for independence — and what’s next
    October 4, 2017 - Leaders in Catalonia say voters in the northeast region of Spain overwhelmingly cast ballots for independence from Spain in a Sunday referendum. But the country’s central government won’t recognize the vote, calling it illegal.
     
  4. Jim Nash

    Jim Nash Well-Known Member

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    God knows how they'd manage without Catalonia's money. It'll be civil war if they try to break away.
     
  5. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    The EU is supporting Spain, and if Spain is serious about sticking with the court’s decision that the referendum is illegal, then what? Are we looking at Spanish Civil War II: This Time it’s Regional? And even worse, if shooting starts, what if Spain invokes Article 5 of the NATO Charter? Is the US really going to get involved in a military conflict there? That is a real nightmare scenario.

    …although, as far as military occupation duties go, Barcelona beats virtually everywhere else our military has been for the past few decades, if you have to fight a war, at least do it in a temperate climate with beautiful local girls.
     
  6. zoom_copter66

    zoom_copter66 Well-Known Member

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    If the EU doesn't recognize it...along with the rest of world..no dice. It's like in Quebec Canada, they want a divorce but still use the car, use the bathroom, use their money, etc.
     
  7. Jeannette

    Jeannette Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now for the ridiculous. The headline in the Washington Post reads: Catalonia held a referendum. Russia won.

    Russia won what, idiots?




    I Can't Stand It, I Can't Stand It, I Can't Stand It

    .[​IMG]
     
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  8. Lil Mike

    Lil Mike Well-Known Member

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    I find it hard to believe that if the really do declare independence next week, and Spain doesn't do anything about it, that they wouldn't eventually be recognized.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
  9. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Catalonia will not be allowed independence.
     
  10. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    How can they be prevented from taking it?
     
  11. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Russia interfered in Catalonia separatist vote...
    [​IMG]
    Spain sees Russian interference in Catalonia separatist vote
    November 13, 2017 - Madrid believes Russian-based groups used online social media to heavily promote Catalonia’s independence referendum last month in an attempt to destabilize Spain, Spanish ministers said on Monday.
     
  12. Concord

    Concord Well-Known Member

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    Economic sanctions and political/diplomatic estrangement. I don't see many European actors willing to risk Spain's ire to support the Catalonians. The Muslim world, I think, would be perfectly happy to trade with Catalonia.
     
  13. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :applause: :woot: :applause:

    And where is the FREEDOM loving, :flagus: sponsored E.U. ?
    Yup! Hypocritical to the core .

    Maybe they should listen to Catalonia a bit.
    Behave as Euro Mediators and not so totalitarian.
    Catalonia is more profitable to their international capitalists than the rest of Spain, y'think?




    Mel Gibson suffered horribly so we can be FREE!



    Moi :oldman:
    CalExit Supporter.
    [​IMG]






     
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  14. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The days when the Washington Post actually did any journalistic reporting ended sometime just after the 1960's.
     
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  15. Thingamabob

    Thingamabob Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I also express my opinion over the Catalonian dilemma, as well as the WMD hoax, the CIA backed coup in the Ukraine, etc. on Twitter, Facebook and other Internet sites that may theoretically massively cause and swing in public opinion "my way". Why isn't my name in the Washington Post? I must try harder next time!!! :frustrated:
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  16. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Now more than ever.
    Sic semper tyrannis

    https://worldview.stratfor.com/situation-report/spain-chief-prosecutor-catalan-separatists-dies
    Spain: Chief Prosecutor Of
    Catalan Separatists Dies

    The attorney general of Spain, who was prosecuting the separatist leaders of Catalonia, died Nov. 18 while in Argentina for an international law conference, The New York Times reported Nov. 19.
    The sudden death of Jose Manuel Maza, 66, is likely to delay any trials for 20 Catalan politicians, including the region’s former leader, Carles Puigdemont. The attorney general had said that they should be tried for rebellion and sedition for their parts in the independence referendum.


    Moi :oldman:

    r > g



    invadecanadanewban.JPG
    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
  17. PanMonarchist

    PanMonarchist Well-Known Member

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    I think Catalonia should be allowed to leave only because it is a left wing voting bloc and republican (as in deposing the monarchy) hotbed. Should they leave, the rest of the country would move in a rightward direction and the monarchy would be in a much more secure position.
     
  18. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    There really isn't as much popular desire for independence in Catalonia as political advocates for this make out. Several surveys indicate independence does not have majority support. The coalition of pro-separatist parties which formed the previous regional government barely amounted to a majority, each of those parties had a slightly different emphasis, not all were in favor of the unilateral declaration of independence. At least two factions expected Spain would negotiate a transition to independence which would allow the region to remain in the EU and retain the Euro.

    The regional elections schedule for December 21 will provide a clear indication of how Catalonians feel about independence, until then we can speculate, but it seems separatism has lost some appeal and the jockeying of different parties to get included in whatever coalition reveals this is more about the greed for power of individual politicians than anything in the region's interest.

    Madrid needs to keep the situation calm and is doing so, the regional police force is cooperating, regional administrative bureaucracies are also compliant, the citizenry in the region has not noticed any deterioration in the quality of services the regional government provides. The imprisonment of members of the regional Govern has rallied two protest marches, and I'd expect there could be more, but the jailed politicians are well cared for, allowed to campaign from their cells and their legal proceedings are well documented and quite unobjectionable. Their cases will be consolidated, Puigdemont's and the other exiles' extradition will be drawn out until probably next year. The former president, who will campaign "in exile" has already antagonized some separatists by not including certain figures in his own cabinet list.
    Not sure how this will work out, I think Puigdemont messed up because he failed to anticipate opposition from the EU, didn't take into account any concerns from the business community and naturally thought many more shared his view on the desirability of independence than is not evident. A commission to review modifications to the constitution is a positive development, but one I suspect will not satisfy Catalonian irredentists to the degree this will fail to treat them differently from any of the other regions (which is what they seek). Further devolution of power from Madrid to the regions is hard to imagine, there really isn't much governed from Madrid any more. Modifying fiscalization so each region only gets in proportion to what it contributes might satisfy Catalonians, but sure doesn't seem like a good idea for anyone else and seems like a step in the wrong direction, but I guess not if there's such a lack of social solidarity.
     
  19. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Isn't it fascinating how the E.U. supports
    "democratic movements" only and always,
    outside the E.U.?

    The Western nation-state structure is perfect, y'see.


    Moi :oldman:
    Californian


    r > g

    Canada.jpg

    Across an immense, unguarded, ethereal border, Canadians, cool and unsympathetic,
    regard our America with envious eyes and slowly and surely draw their plans against us.
     
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  20. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Isn't it funny how the EU likes to think it is a defining aspect of peoples national identity.
    They wouldn't still wish to be Spanish if Spain wasn't an EU member.
    Righto.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
  21. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    It is not really "funny", more like "vitally important" that the EU likes to think membership in it is a defining aspect of members' national identity. This is not a strange requirement, it would be essential to the constitution of this evolving nation-state concept. I think Spanish national identity is or must be subsumed within and Catalonian cultural identity.

    The highly European concept of "nation-state" is evolving and we should be grateful to Catalonia for pushing the parameters of this concept as it helps us understand the limits to sovereignty.

    Apparently force is involved and the willingness to use force and sacrifice in violence is a requirement. Separatists in Catalonia lacked the will to sacrifice to use force for independence.

    Catalonian separatists need to be taught theirs is only an aspiration, or secure the force for the sacrifice required.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  22. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    According to a recent poll the Catalonian government to emerge from the regional elections in less than 4 weeks will be split evenly between separatists and constutionalists with each side garnering 46% of the vote (in 2015 the separatists had 47.7% and the three constitutionalist parties added up to 39.1%)

    [​IMG]


    The survey, conducted between November 20 and 22, once it was established there would be three separate separatist lists of candidates rather than a single list as had been proposed (as was the case in 2015). The survey also indicates a high turnout (around 80%) which would be the highest in Catalonia’s regional elections. Undecideds are 23% and mostly women over 65 living in Barcelona.

    According to the survey, separatists would get 67 seats, just one short of an absolute majority (they had 72 seats in the former government). Esquerra would be the party with most votes (26.5% and 39 delegates), the former president’s party would get 13.6% of the vote (21 seats) and the radical CUP would have 5.9% of the vote.

    If this survey was confirmed it would be impossible to select a separatist president without the support of at least some constitutionalists. It is not clear whether the former consellers in jail or exile will be allowed to vote. https://politica.elpais.com/politica/2017/11/25/actualidad/1511631782_154630.html
     
  23. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    One of England's colonies once voted (in the 1770's) to separate from England as well....turned out ok, actually.
     
  24. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    Sour Grapes:
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2017
  25. Plus Ultra

    Plus Ultra Well-Known Member

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    There was a whole ocean separating them from their rulers, when some of that former colony's states decided to secede they had to go to war.

    The Catalonian situation is more similar to the US Civil War because like the Confederate states, Catalonia enjoyed a considerable degree of self-government, whereas in the War of Independence the 13 original states lacked any self-government, they were ruled from afar and had no representation in their ruler's government.
     

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