CC the Bedrock fundament of a safe society - Kamala Harris’ Top Five Gun Controls

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by Sahba*, Feb 5, 2019.

  1. Sahba*

    Sahba* Well-Known Member

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    For the sake of debate going forward can we assume that the majority here favor the following:
    - better enforcement of our existing laws targeting 'prohibited possessors' from having access to firearms.
    - Vis a vis the just application / letter of the law, keeping individuals segregated from society, who present an inherent risk.

    - Can we 'more or less' agree that despite the best efforts to mitigate prohibited possessors from having access to firearms, some of these individuals will ultimately go on to be perpetrators of firearm related crime?

    - Additionally, there have been, and will be 'non-prohibited possessors' (aka legal, lol) who don't show up on the NICS 'radar' / form 4473 - who will also go on to be perpetrators of firearm related crime.

    So for those that are willing to facilitate debate by establishing a jump off point / basis, (hypothetical as it might seem) the question remains, - what is the best way to facilitate the safety of society in a world where there will always exist some presence of firearms?

    Should the approach be disparate based on population density / local / historical characteristics of subset / zoning etc.?
    - Though unconstitutional would near total disarmament / confiscation, with a large police presence, really curb crime? - Would a near ubiquitous firearm availability, to the law abiding population, (self regulation / assuredness of a proportional firearm response) best facilitate a harmonious society? etc. etc.

    Prob. for clarity going forward the particular 'parameters' of the assertion being made should be established... Just a suggestion :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2019
  2. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    The huge majority of our laws have nothing to do with preventing access to firearms, only punishing people who do so illegally - as it should be. The "enforcement" of the laws that attempt to 'prevent' people from illegally obtaining firearms can only be achieved with an investigation of every NICS denial and a full felony prosecution of same, when warranted.
    Of course - because it is impossible for a law to prevent someone else form breaking another law.
    -Full enforcement of current laws
    -Aid the law abiding in making it easier for them to defend themselves.
     
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  3. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A good beginning would to begin raising children to have respect for honesty, don't steal, respect for life, don't kill people and self respect, don't do something dishonorable, be self sufficient and willing to help others.
     
  4. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Yeah. Wow. You simply have zero concept of how a free society is supposed to work. You seem utterly incapable of comprehending that you can't infringe upon someone's Constitutional rights because you THINK they might one day commit a crime or act irresponsibly; you have to wait until they actually do something wrong.

    In the end, you and I want the same things: a reduction in violence and an improvement in public safety. But, I think the fundamental difference between us is that you want to enact laws to control people, and place restrictions upon their rights because you see rights as nothing but government sanctioned privileges, and I want people's rights to be protected because I believe they are inalienable and that no one should have their rights infringed in any way until and unless they prove themselves irresponsible or to be possessed of criminal intent.

    Yes, waiting until someone has ACTUALLY COMMITTED A CRIME before you can infringe upon their rights means people have more opportunity to commit nefarious and diabolical acts... but part of living in a free society is acknowledging there is a greater risk, but that the freedoms we enjoy are worth that risk.
     
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  5. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One of the problems is, there are too many people in this country who are willing to eliminate one of your rights, a right they could care less about or actually dislike, for what they perceive as more security for themselves.

    It's a very self centered way of thinking, but they mask that me first greed behind statements like, "it will save the lives of children."
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2019
  6. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    There are a hundred ways in which the state acts proactively to restrict a right to people who have not yet committed a crime.

    A hundred at least
     
  7. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Name 17 of them for me.
     
  8. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Sure rich. Let me make you a sandwich first. Lol
     
  9. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Extra mayo please.
     
  10. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    And that fact is indicative of just how apathetic the American people have become regarding their own rights and freedoms.
     
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  11. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    The door leaving the country is wide open if you don't like it here
     
  12. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    I'm not going anywhere. I will choose to stand and fight for my Constitutional rights; the opinions of the sheep be damned.
     
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  13. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    As will I!
     
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  14. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    I will stand with Americans
     
  15. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    That's what I been telling these liberals who want to change the Constitution by referendum.

    I'm still waitin' on my sammich.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
  16. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    And I will stand with the Constitution and protect the rights and Liberty of all Americans... even those Americans too stupid or lazy to recognize what their rights actually are.
     
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  17. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Unfortunately stupidity is an increasing and acceptable value in the U.S.
     
  18. Sahba*

    Sahba* Well-Known Member

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    https://reason.com/blog/2018/12/20/new-jerseys-gun-owners-do-not-seem-eager

    I hope none stick their neck out here, openly endorsing non-compliance with State legislation, (yet). Better to talk in hypotheticals... It is interesting that NJ (a far, far gone state) has had 'Zero' compliance. Very encouraging! / ? I dunno. What we each choose to do with our own legally owned, constitutionally sanctioned, common use possessions is ultimately a personal matter - the consequences & ramifications, however, might be impactful on we the citizenry going forward...

    With Maduro & his military, it's quite telling that the democratically compliant constituency in Venezuela are throwing ROCKS... That's all that they have~!
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2019
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  19. Richard The Last

    Richard The Last Well-Known Member

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    Me too. And if it gets bad enough then Americans will look to this document for the solution.
     
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  20. Dispondent

    Dispondent Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The same could be said about Obama voters, but we don't try to criminalize it or attempt to violate their Constitutional rights. In fact we respect their rights and even defend them, even while praying they never ever exercise said rights so stupidly again...
     
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  21. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    That's nice.


    Some people are too stupid to carry a gun
     
  22. Well Bonded

    Well Bonded Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It sure is.

    Very true, that is why they become anti-gunners and then attempt to regulate everyone down to their vulnerable position in life.
     
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  23. Sahba*

    Sahba* Well-Known Member

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    I like to use Latin as it's just more concise... Ad hoc, ergo propter hoc ("after this, therefore, because of this)... How many times do we see a false equivalency / false premise --> deduction being made here on this forum! Many 'Bloomberg-arians' start (ipso facto) with the premise that because one espouses CC or voluntary carry by certified / sanctioned individuals that that is TANTAMOUNT to all being required to do likewise... ROTFL (unless it was such a serious issue)! S
     
  24. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    Fact.

    There are people carrying guns in the US today that are too stupid to do so and the NRA fights for them
     
  25. Sahba*

    Sahba* Well-Known Member

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    NO they don't... Any inference of circumspect / naive (subjective) scenarios that you have concocted in your mind - I can refute by 'objective' & official NRA expositions to the contrary. (O... btw, a lifelong NRA member - who would have thunk... Persian Iranian & all...) :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2019

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