CCW to the rescue myth

Where did he say all mass shootings?

Non-sequiter

 

You have been given ample opportunity to support your claim.

Clearly you are not even willing to attempt.

I'll give you some advice at how you should have attempted this discussion:

To be persuasive you have to at least attempt to falsify your claim, otherwise your opponent will easily do so. You need to be ready to show a comparison between CCW holders, and the general population. What is the rate of Murder/Felony/Suicide among the general population, non CCW holders, and CCW holders? If your premise is true, the rates should be higher among CCW holders than the general population. What is the rate of legitimate homicide among the general population vs that of CCW holders? What is the rate of legitimate homicide among security personnel like the military and police? Shouldn't the rate be lower among CCW holders if your claim is true?

One of the many flaws in your study is this: In order for the police to stop a felony, must they kill the felon? What is the rate of felony deterrence without the use or threat of force? Do the police promise to hug the felon if they agree to stop the commission of their felony? Do they ply them with candy perhaps?

 

You have a proliferation problem, including the above cities. Gun control in specific US cities doesn't mean no guns. Look at countries with national restrictions for the results to be expected. But this topic isn't about that, it's about CCW in relation to mass shootings.

 

No, we have a violence problem. One that is exacerbated by our revolving-door "corrections" policies, and our willingness to allow violent people to remain at large in our otherwise peaceful society. If we were to address that, we would have one of the lowest violent crime rates in the world.

 

Just making a point the restrictive gun laws do not stop violent crime.

 

A society that defends individual liberty, and eschews the tyranny of the masses will always be a target for individuals willing to use violence to manipulate the peaceful or weak. This is one of the reasons why the individual right of self defense is imperative in our society.

 

I agree. Also, any law abiding citizen can have his mind snap in a second when he is carrying a gun and begin shooting at people.

 

Really? You have more people in jail than the rest of the world - 22% of all incarcerated people in the world are in US prisons. So how's that working for you?

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People who think they need to carry a gun around are already halfway snapped.

 

You have a low opinion of people who may actually need a gun for self defense in high risk areas. Do you honestly think you've been fair to such people?

 

People who think they know what other individuals need are typically poorly informed of the needs of others. In as much as it's a bit narcissistic to think that the needs of others are based on your needs or the needs you've been exposed to...isn't it?

None the less, we live in a society of individual liberty. Thank goodness we don't need to defer to you, or anyone else to attempt to divine what it is that individuals need.

 

In deference to bluebird, snakestretch, and other anti gun nuts here. At least they provide a semi logical reason for their arguments... Some of the time.

Your argument is inherently wrong because it doesn't stand up to even basic math.

For instance Chicago a population of 2.5 million accounts for 505 of the 750 murders in illinios. That means the other 10
Million people who live in other cities in illinios only commited about 250 murders. Interesting considering that Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the entire state but makes up 70 percent of the murders.

But here is the real question, if the number of guns available is a direct correlation to the number of murders. Then why do areas with lax gun laws and high ownership rates not have murder problems? Why does the rest of illinios have a murder rate in line with the rest of the modern world? Why do liberal cities make up the bulk of murders in any given state? The simple fact is you don't have a real answer. Because the real answer would effect the liberal voter base.

 

If I walked around carrying a baseball bat or RPG launcher for protection what would people think of me? They'd think I was either nuts or a bit of a coward. Carrying a gun around is as bizarre.

The US isn't a 3rd world high-crime country. The most permits are in Florida which is laughable. Anyone who thinks they need a gun for protection in Florida is really out to lunch.

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We're talking about CCW and mass shootings.

 

I agree 100%. We value individual liberty over ALL ELSE. As such, we must accept that, occasionally, one of us, who are enjoying their liberty, will snap and go postal. Like the girl who ran over and killed or injured ~50 people with her car yesterday. There is no legislative solution for that, in any society.

However, once someone DEMONSTRATES their ability to initiate violence on another by actually committing an act of violence, he should LOSE his liberty, and it should be very difficult or impossible to get it back.

 

I think the willingness to portray folks, including the elderly, the disabled, and the weak as cowardly for wanting to have the ability to provide for their own defense is quite revealing.

A society that actually conformed to your biases would be bizarre indeed.

 

Actually that society is the norm in the developed world.

 

Because, amazingly, we hold non-violent offenders in jail and let violent people skate, or fail to incarcerate them at all. Prisons should be reserved for people who are dangerous to peaceful society, and those people should find it very difficult to ever see freedom again. If you want to talk about a blatant systemic failure that causes lots of violent crime, this is it.

 

How many mass shooters had CCW licenses?

 

There are many reasons why an individual might resort to violence.

An irredeemable defect of character is just one of them. As a foster parent and the husband of an OT for trouble youth, I've had the opportunity to witness many successes.

 

What violent people (by offense) are being allowed to skate?

 

Your view has been demonstrated to be quite myopic. I don't have much confidence that you have a good idea what's going on in your own backyard, let alone the developed world.

 

Fine then. List the developed countries with CCW permits similar to the US.

 

People with CCW permits don't commit mass shootings.

 

What does that have to do with declaring those who wish to defend themselves with a firearm, "cowards"?

How do you see into the minds of people? That's some skill.

 

So let's limit gun ownership to the elderly, disabled and weak.

 

Can you limit gun ownership to criminals? Denying them the right to weapons doe's what? Nothing.