CCW to the rescue myth

I keep telling him that but if he admits it he admits defeat and OP failure.

 

So? Some of the best driver die in car accidents.

 

I'm not against it, I personally just prefer not to.

 

This guy, for a recent example, was previously arrested for aggravated battery, domestic violence and a violent incident involving a gun. They allowed him to skate, and he went out and shot a 4 year old girl in the head because he was mad at her daddy. For more examples, have a look at south side Chicago... and you'll see the revolving door spinning at light speed.

 

Of course. They should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. If one resorts to the INITIATION of violence involving a weapon of any kind, it should be very very difficult for them to ever see the light of day again. If on the other hand, one initiates a drunken bar brawl, that is out of normal character, and it can be proven who the initiator was, then a short sentence with a re-evaluation and release is acceptable, but a severe penalty for a recurrence should be assured. We should focus on rehabilitation for those, but have zero tolerance for the criminally violent, and in all cases maintain separation from peaceful society.

But, in general, the ability for a person to resort to initiation of violence is, in my view, a mental disorder and should be dealt with as such.

 

Give us examples and we will add them to the database

 

linky?

Not that I do not believe you but I do wonder if his "right to bear arms" had not been revoked and he was carrying illegally

 

Hey Doug_yvr, I hate to break this to you but I don't give a rats ass about your, your loved ones or your families safety. Zilch, zero, none, nada.. Mine, now they I do care about and will do everything I can to make sure that they stay safe. It's a tough, cruel and violent world we live in and I'd rather be prepared than be a sheep.

 

But there is such a thing as the "weapons effect"

 

I provided a link in the message you replied to, but I cannot click it for you.

He was, I presume, a felon, since he had all those previous violent charges against him, and was therefore carrying illegally. Nothing proposed by you anti-gun big-government lunatics would have stopped this guy, but our justice system damn sure should have, and did not. If he would have been locked away after his first violent offense, this little girl would still be alive, and all those other people he perpetrated his violence against (both documented and not, and I bet the majority of his violence has gone unreported) would have been spared. People like him should be segregated from society after their FIRST violent offense, for that is the ONLY way we can prevent him from using whatever weapon he chooses to commit further violence against us. If it wasn't a gun, it would have been a tire-iron, or his fists. Nothing you anti's propose will have any effect on people like him.

 

I do not click huffpo links, ever. Nor have I ever found anything on their website to be unbiased truth. Nor do I particularly care what aussies or canucks think about it. Our problem is a violence problem. If we were to aggressively address that problem, we would have the lowest violent crime rate in the world. Whereas, nothing you have proposed would help address THE CORE PROBLEM, one bit.

 

Why is it different there - have you been adding something to the water?

 

Apologies - bad light and did not see the colour difference

Interesting reporting though - blame everything BUT the fact that he had access to a gun.

 

Any statistical analysis of shooting deaths that does not remove out suicides is bogus. At least the article you linked is upfront that suicides are included (and constitute the bulk of incidents). Very often that fact is hidden by anti-gun advocates.

But it's still bogus. To think that suicides are affected one way or the other by gun control laws is nonsensical on its face. It becomes even more ludicrous to imagine that a suicide might have been prevented through denial of a carry permit. That's WTF-worthy 'reasoning.'

Japan has virtually eliminated private ownership of guns. Japanese Olympic athletes in shooting sports now have to travel overseas in order to train. Yet Japan's suicide rate is about 1.5 times that of the USA.

 

Then why are suicides more likely to occur in a house where there is easy access to a firearm?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-peak/the-psychology-of-guns_b_6082800.html?ir=Australia

 

Is that a joke?

- - - Updated - - -

Where do you go that you are that afraid?

 

It seems you are claiming that only 3 countries in the world enjoy liberty. Mexico, Guatemala and us

 

Or just look at the facts.

1. Pearl High School

Oct. 1, 1997
Luke Woodham fatally stabbed his mother at home before opening fire at his high school, killing two students and injuring seven others. The attack was stopped when Assistant Principal Joel Myrick retrieved his .45 caliber handgun from his truck and confronted Woodham, detaining him until authorities could arrive.

Myrick’s action stopped Woodham from going across the street to the middle school as he had planned.


2. Parker Middle School

April 24, 1998
A 14-year-old student showed up to his middle school dance carrying a .25-caliber pistol. He opened fire inside the dance, killing one teacher and wounding another as well as two students. The rampage ended when James Strand, owner of the banquet hall the dance was happening in, grabbed his personal shotgun and confronted the 14-year-old killer. Strand held the teen at gunpoint for 11 minutes before finally getting him to drop the weapon and lie on the ground and searching him for additional weapons.


3. Appalachian School of Law

Jan. 16, 2002
A 43-year-old former student armed with a .380 handgun killed Dean Anthony Sutin and Professor Thomas Blackwell with point blank shots and went on to kill fellow student Angela Dales as well as wounding three others before being confronted at gunpoint by law students Tracy Bridges, a county sheriff’s deputy, and Mikael Gross, a police officer, after retrieving their personal handguns from their vehicles. The gunman was then apprehended by other students.

Gross and Bridges lost valuable response time accessing their handguns because of the law school’s standing as a gun-free zone.


4. New Life Church

Dec. 9, 2007
2 parishioners were killed and 3 wounded when a gunman toting a Bushmaster AR-15 opened fire at New Hope Church. Hearing the rifle fire, Jeanne Assam grabbed her personal concealed carry firearm and confronted the gunman from a distance of 20 yards. According to 5280 Magazine:

She fires five quick shots. Murray falls backward. Assam moves to the middle of the corridor and rushes forward. She’s a few dozen feet from Murray now, exposed in the middle of the hallway. “Drop your weapon, or I will kill you!” she yells. Murray sits up to face her. He’s still holding the rifle. Boom-boom-boom. Bullets rip past her and pepper a wall. While Murray shoots, Assam fires three times.

Through the haze of gun smoke, Assam sees the man struggling on the floor. He props his head against a wall. Her weapon is up, trained on the man. She sees his hands moving near his shoulder. He’s trying to pull the pin on a grenade. He’s going to kill everyone around here, Assam thinks. She instinctively steps back and fires two more shots.


5. New York Mills AT&T Store

May 27, 2010
A 79-year-old man entered an AT&T store in New York Mills, New York carrying a .357 magnum revolver in his hand and a list of employees he planned to kill in his pocket. Hearing the hand cannon go off, Donald J. Moore drew his own personal weapon and killed the gunman before he could complete his plan. One employee was wounded in the shooting.


6. Sullivan Central High School

August 30, 2010
When a 62-year-old man armed with two handguns forced his way into Sullivan Central High School in Tennessee, he was immediately engaged by School Resource Officer Carolyn Gudger. Gudger put her body between the gunman and a student and started what would turn out to be a more than 10 minute gun-to-gun encounter. Gudger used the time to slowly move the man to a less crowded part of the school. When other officers arrived on the scene, a brief gun battle erupted ending with the gunman mortally wounded.


7. Freewill Baptist Church

March 25, 2012
Aaron Guyton was inside the recreation building of his grandfather’s church when he saw Jessie Gates, a member of the congregation, pulling a shotgun from his vehicle. Guyton leapt into action, locking the doors to the church where services were going on. Gates kicked in the door and pointed the shotgun at Rev. Henry Guyton and several parishioners. Drawing his concealed handgun, the younger Guyton held Gates at gunpoint while two members of the church took him to the ground. Rev. Guyton then took the shotgun from his hand.


8. Clackamas Town Center Mall

Dec. 11, 2012
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.


9. Mystic Strip Club

January 11, 2014
After being refused entry to the strip club for belligerent behavior and racist comments earlir in the night, Thomas Elliott Hjelmeland returned carrying a handgun and wearing a Halloween mask. As soon as he entered the club, Hjelmeland opened fire, striking bouncer Brian Rizzo, a patron, and a waitress. Another bouncer, Jonathan Baer drew his concealed handgun and shot Hjelmeland, killing him.

Following the attack Baer posted to Facebook: “I did what I felt was right to stop the shooter…I carry every day, and will continue to, and will so with the hope that I will NEVER have to pull it out again.”


10. Austin, Texas Construction Site

April 30, 2014
An irate former employee came to a construction site and opened fire on his co-workers. The site’s foreman, a Concealed Handgun License holder, drew his firearm and opened fire. Both men were wounded in the exchange of gunfire but the foreman’s actions ended the attack and no one else was wounded.


11. Cache Valley Hospital

May 16, 2014
Armed with two handguns, a man entered the Cache Valley Hospital emergency room and began making demands. After demanding to see a doctor, he racked the slide on one of his handguns and told hospital employees “someone is going to die today”. While a security guard tried to keep the gunman’s focus on him, two corrections officers who happened to be at the hospital on an unrelated matter engaged from another direction. The gunman was shot three times and no other people were harmed.


12. Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital

July 25, 2014
A patient at a psychiatric clinic killed his case worker at point blank range and then turned his gun on his doctor, Lee Silverman, striking him several times. Before the gunman could leave the office and continue his rampage, Dr. Silverman drew his own concealed handgun and pumped three rounds into the gunman’s torso, mortally wounding him. Police and hospital staff hail Dr. Silverman as a hero and credit him with saving dozens of lives.

Read more: http://controversialtimes.com/issue...stopped-by-good-guys-with-guns/#ixzz3piMtugPm

 

Irrelevant. If the legal system was doing it's job he would have not been out walking around where he could get access to a gun in the first place, he would be in prison.

 

That's one study. How do you explain the fact that Japan has a much higher suicide rate than the US, despite having virtually no guns in private hands? Or that Israel's suicide rate is less than half of that in the US, while having a high rate of guns in private hands?

 

ask him to tell us how many gas stations weren't robbed because the criminals spread the word the owner is packing heat after one of them got shot at...

or how many banks and other places with armed guards, weren't robbed because criminals saw they had armed guards...

I mean imagine if companies like brinks money transport services, didn't have armed guards... we'd hear about more than the one or twice a year someone tries to rob one... it would be once or twice a day... actually it would probably be more like gangs following the trucks daily... you'd see a convoy of cars waiting to pick them off...

but I guess it's just easier to say things that can't be measured with some data set, because then nobody can prove you're wrong...

I also find it interesting he said "CCW" are more likely to commit mass shootings... I'd like to see what percentage of "mass shootings" are committed by CCW holders, because last time I checked the stats, most "mass shootings" (basically gang shootings and other crimes where 2 folks get shot), they aren't even legal gun owners, they're criminals quite often felons in possession of a fiream... so technically they aren't CCW holders, since they can't legally own a gun... little alone a stolen one...

I dunno its clear the guy is just baiting and flaming... I'm getting sick of it on this board... I came for solutions and all I seem to confront are political mantra preachers... who could care less of their facts are facts, as long as they support the opinion, they consider it close enough...

 

It's culturally acceptable to commit suicide in Japan. You'll notice they don't do it with guns. Probably a cultural thing in Israel, too.

 

You didn't mention the hundreds-of-thousands of good guys with guns stopping crime every day in the imaginations of the Second Amendment fanatics.

 

Kind of like having insurance or a fire extinguisher. The idea is that you hope you never have to use it but when you do, you absolutely need it.

BTW, your fear of law abiding citizens is palpable.

 

Agreed, it is a matter of culture, not availability of one implement or another. But in post #1, OP's link implies that it is a matter of availability. In fact, the article linked takes this one step further in implying that not just the gun, but having a license to carry it on the street somehow is a contributor to suicides. That is breathtakingly stupid.