CCW to the rescue myth

It is definitely cultural. We have cultural islands in the US where gun violence is more prevalent such as inner city gangs or where the drug economy is the strongest. Culturally, some of the first world countries that have the least gun violence have always had low gun violence even when they were allowed to have guns. There is no correlation to gun availability and gun violence. If that were the case, the increase in gun sales in the US and the passage of more CCW laws over the last 3 decades should have seen an increase in gun violence but the opposite is true.

 

18 of the top 20 nations with the highest suicide have civilian ownership of guns in the single digits per 100k. There is no correlation between guns and suicide.

Women in the US who have exceptional access to guns do not chose them as a method of suicide. They chose pills 4 to 1. You can say "well, they don't want to disfigure themselves", and that may be true, but it still invalidates the arguments that having access to a gun makes it more likely to kill yourself.

 

OOOh a gun, an evil gun. AND it's black. Damn I just wet myself.

 

That's really not what is at issue. I like the way Dewayne Blackwell and Larry Bastion put it:


Two feet they come a creepin'
Like a black cat do
And two bodies are layin' naked
A creeper think he got nothin' to lose
So he creeps into this house, yeah
And unlocks the door
And as a man's reaching for his trousers
Shoots him full of thirty-eight holes

Mr. Saturday night special
Got a barrel that's blue and cold
Ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole

Big Jim's been drinkin' whiskey
And playin' poker on a losin' night
And pretty soon ol' Jim starts a thinkin'
Somebody been cheatin' and lyin'
So Big Jim commence to fightin'
I wouldn't tell you no lie
Big Jim done pulled his pistol
Shot his friend right between the eyes

Mr. Saturday night special
Got a barrel that's blue and cold
Ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole

Oh, it's the Saturday night special, for twenty dollars you can buy yourself one too

Hand guns are made for killin'
They ain't no good for nothin' else
And if you like to drink your whiskey
You might even shoot yourself
So why don't we dump 'em people
To the bottom of the sea
Before some ol' fool come around here
Wanna shoot either you or me

Mr. Saturday night special
You got a barrel that's blue and cold
You ain't good for nothin'
But put a man six feet in a hole

Mr. the Saturday night special
And I'd like to tell you what you could do with it
And that's the end of the song

 

You linked to a NY Times opinion piece. Try some real news about actual situations........

https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/armed-citizen/

 

Because, the reality is, everyone here has access to a gun. And that's not going to change any time soon, and no laws passed will change it. The gun is not the problem, the violent man is the problem. Everyone sees that except those who have an agenda.

 

I've seen gun banner FAILS before but this one is about the worst.

First, its a study by the Violence Policy Center (VPC), a one man (plus a secretary) political gun banner organization fully funded by The Joyce Institute.

Next, VPC uses an estimate of defensive gun uses from David Hemenway, another political gun banner. Hemenway uses the accepted lower boundary for self-defensive gun uses of around 250,000 per year. The upper boundary is around 3,000,000. The true number is uncertain and somewhere in between. But VPC needs a low number to get their pre-ordained conclusion so VPC goes with fellow gun banner Hemenway.

Next, to inflate the number of crimes, VPC decides that "violent crime" is rape, robbery, homicide, aggravated assault, and simple assault. Simple assault is not normally considered a violent crime - simple assault can literally be unwanted touching, merely putting your hand on someone's arm can be simple assault. But including simple assault decreases the ration of defensive gun uses to "violent crime".

VPC also uses FBI "justifiable homicides" as a measure of defensive gun uses. Justifiable homicide is notoriously inaccurate, some years up to 20 states don't even report that data to the FBI. The VPC report states "in 2012, 13 states reported no justifiable homicides" as if there were none in those states - but the states just didn't submit the data. VPC lies.

Plus, the gun is never fired in the vast number of defensive gun uses, so defensive gun uses is irrelevant.


Now, onto the lying New York Times.

The biggest lie is the NYT claim that "The death toll includes 29 mass killings of three or more people by concealed carry shooters who took 139 lives". The NYT article provides a link to another NYT article - which says nothing about concealed carry except that shooter John Houser was denied a CCW.

A google search turns up a report of mass shootings by CCW holders - the report is by VPC and is based on initial newspaper reports on 29 shootings. Wow, some real science going on there. I won't trust the 29 number unless each case is checked.

And that's 29 cases over the past 8 years, over the entire nation of 325 million people. Most appear to be family disputes, not what people actually consider a mass shooting - a person randomly kills people in a public area.


FAIL FAIL FAIL. Just a bunch of gun banner hooey.

 

That is utter BS.

The US has mandatory seat belt laws, mandatory air bags, laws against drunk and reckless driving - doesn't stop traffic fatalities and injuries.

And the number of CCW holders, while rising, is small in the nation at large. And as the number has grown, the rate of homicides, and violent crime has dropped significantly (55% since 1991 - the CCW push started in the mid 1980's).

But as long as the gun banners fool people into having "gun free zones" there will still be mass shootings.

 

If you accidentally squirt the wrong guy with your fire extinguisher, it most likely won't kill him.

Another failed analogy on your part

 

I'm 56, never had a need for a gun. My mother is 80. I don't think that she has even held a gun. It's not like we live in the wild west and have to carry our guns to fend off renegade Indians and cattle rustlers.

That is what is happening inside your head, not the real world.

 

I won't argue the CCW thing. But the abundance and availability of guns contributes to suicides. There is no argument on the mass killings.

 

I fail to see the significance statistically. Are CCW more or less likely to be involved in a shooting? I also fail to see how having less CCW permits makes for less killings. You don't need a CCW permit to shoot someone, so if you denied a person the permit, what is to stop them from carrying without the permit?

 

O the old suicide gun myth. Except when you compare total suicides across countries you will see America isn't even close,to the top. In fact even gun ban Japan has more suicides than the America. So don't ever bring suicides to a gun ownership discussion.

 

Guns have been banned in court houses across America. The number of court house shootings has dropped to almost zero. When's the last time you heard of a shooting at an airport beyond the security screen?

 

Life is good in Mayberry RFD. Give it 10 years and..........

If you don't care to protect yourself and your loved ones, I really don't care what happens to ya'all. If you want to be a victim, more power to ya. Don't tell me how I can or can't protect mine.

 

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...+courthouse+shooting&btnG=Google+Search&gbv=1

2013 Los Angeles International Airport shooting

 

One can compare mass shootings where the shooter was taken out by an armed citizen to mass shootings where the shooter was taken out by law enforcement or by himself.

I can't think of one example where an armed citizen took out a mass shooter. I bet this happens less than 1% of the time.

 

Yeah the armed guards all over those places probably has less to do with it than the sign.

 

[video=youtube;-MPMG3hWmMk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MPMG3hWmMk[/video]

 

Pardy, you have been shown countless examples but you just seem to have trouble with those meddling facts.

 

Didn't you notice that I used the phrase "beyond the security screen"? In the examples you cited and all the other ones you'll find, if you pay close attention you'll see that the shootings happened before the shooter reached the security screening. Once one passes the security screening and no one has any guns no shootings occur.

 

I need facts, not random examples, opinions, or anecdotes. What percentage of mass shooters are stopped by CCW holders? There's a mass shooting each day in America and I almost never hear of a local hero saving the day. It's time to get realistic.

 

Excellent post! And again, the article implies not just that possession of a gun will increase suicides, but that having a license to carry will increase suicides. In other words, people say to themselves, I wish to do myself in, but I don't have a piece of paper that says I can carry my gun on the streets. Therefore I won't do myself in today.

This is just monumental stupidity. It's hard to overstate the level of irrationality.

 

So, you often point your fire extinguisher at people and squirt them on purpose? I think you might have other problems.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no correlation to more overall suicides due to gun availability, only more suicides by gun. People intent on suicide find a way.

 

http://blog.uritraining.com/?p=88

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2015/05/mass-killings-stopped-by-armed-citizens.html