Chaos in the Caribbean

Discussion in 'Gun Control' started by 6Gunner, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    Please, you're more likely to get struck by lightening.
     
  2. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    I got surrounded by young toughs in a rough section of Boston at 2 AM when I was about 19. I didn't have a gun. I'm still alive. It didn't prompt me to carry one.
     
  3. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Non seq. He said no such thing.
    It's easy to mock your own strawman.
     
  4. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    In your spare time, you're also a mall ninja.
     
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  5. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    They say delusion is the first sign of growing dementia. Compare the instances of criminal assault to instances of lighting strikes. I'll wait.
     
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  6. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    In montana?

    Look at all those criminals:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  7. 6Gunner

    6Gunner Banned

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    Yep, Montana. Gorgeous country and I love where I live. There is also have a growing meth problem and issues with worsening violent crime. Simple fact: I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Too bad you've never had an adult around to explain that concept to you.
     
  8. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You did much better than an NYPD Lieutenant, at 2 am 3 youngsters were outside his home whooping and hollering.

    He went outside unarmed to tell them to move along.

    Two twelve year old girls and one thirteen year old boy, the Lieutenant was unarmed, and they danced on his head and caused him massive head trauma needing all manner of surgery and plates and hardware to rebuild his skull.

    So much for using ones brains and not carrying firearms.

    Because tender aged Children are never a threat to an Adult !!!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  9. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe he didn't use his brains. I didn't when I got surrounded. I was in the wrong place, I was the wrong color, buying a case of beer after hours, and got lucky, very lucky. You know what they say. "I'd rather be lucky than good".
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
  10. papabear

    papabear Active Member

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    Because :-
    1 - If it is true, then it is pathetic that you live in a country whereby people do not commit crime because of vigilantes as opposed to fearing law / police officers / jail
    2 - I dont believe its true, I dont believe your country has gone that far down the toilet of a joke..
     
  11. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    The pathetic part is that the criminal element does not fear the justice system. Chicago has about a 30% homicide clearance rate. Meanwhile they continue to drop gun charges against violent criminals rather than prosecute them. The successful nationwide prosecution rate for felons who lie on background checks, a felony, is about 0.02%. We have instances of straw purchase convictions resulting in just probation, even in cases where the gun was used to murder a policewoman. Our Supreme Court has ruled that the police are not even obligated to protect a citizen.

    Meanwhile a study by Wright and Rossi sponsored by the DOJ shows, among other interesting findings, that 57% of the criminals interviewed feared armed citizens more than they feared the police. That's a 1985 study, btw.

    When the justice system does not work, it is the responsibility of the citizen to protect themselves and their loved ones.
     
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  12. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    You must live in some alternate reality far outside the pale of normal reality.

    I have travelled far and wide, and while most people one meets are nice and not offensive, you will at times meet real psychopaths in any human society.

    These abnormal people see others as objects to be exploited for their sick twisted purposes.
    Serial murderers that nobody suspected, and when finally caught, had very high body counts.

    Look up John Wayne Gacey.
    Or Joel Rifkin.

    This exists not only in the U.S.A. you can find this in any Country on the planet Terra.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2017
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  13. Turtledude

    Turtledude Well-Known Member Donor

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    maybe he was one of the gang bangers? that would explain why he didn't get beat-
     
  14. papabear

    papabear Active Member

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    tbh although I disagree with the premise of your position as I have already stated, I agree with the bolded and in general I like how you have gone about this post.

    That said, if you think private citizens with guns should take credit for all the peace and harmony and lack of murders and not the police, then the private citizens with guns should also take the credit for all of murders / shootings and chaos.

    Then try comparing yourself against a slightly more wealthier group of nations then the Caribbean, I obviously compare my own nation against other Western nations. You could then show how little crime / shootings and everything else you have in america due to your citizens being so well armed and providing such a strong level of safety for everyone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2017
  15. Rucker61

    Rucker61 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting concept. The logical takeaway would be that if we felt instead that the police should take credit for all of the peace and harmony then they and by extension the government are to be credited for all of the murder and mayhem. While I feel that there are some governmental policies that do create some of the social causes behind violence, and some actions by the police, I'm not ready to put everything in their laps.

    A point: I am not, and if memory serves, the poster who first referenced the Oath Keepers, is not crediting the armed citizenry for all of the peace and harmony. We suggest rather than in the absence of law enforcement, and they can't be everywhere, that armed citizens taking responsibility for their defense and safety can be effective. That said, criminals and only those criminals are responsible for their own actions, and armed citizens do not cause criminals to break the law. If you are looking at more macro view in that allowing our citizens to be armed enables, somehiw, criminals to be armed, that's a different topic.

    Like the police, Oath Keepers aren't everywhere either, and most citizens do not take it upon themselves to be armed in self defense, especially outside the home. Laws and other restrictions also limit the ability of those who wish to be prepared outside the home. That said, most homicides in the US are related to ongoing criminal activities and the violence is criminal on criminal. Honest armed citizens typically aren't associating or in close proximity to those groups or activities to intervene even if they chose to.
     
  16. TOG 6

    TOG 6 Well-Known Member

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    Still milking that strawman, eh?
     
  17. papabear

    papabear Active Member

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    I agree with you that the police cant be everywhere at once, the government cant do everything and people should and absolutely do pitch in where they can.

    I think the government response to a natural disaster in the leading nation on the planet is always going to be larger / more effective then that of a 3rd/2nd world nation in the caribbean. Further, it isnt really an issue that is effected by gun control laws this way or that, but more of the culture of the people and resources at hand.

    I am sure there have been many asian countries who have suffered natural disasters but regardless of their gun control laws they would have been quite effective at rebuilding, depending on the resources available, obviously japan would be in a better place to rebuilt then say indonesia or png.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  18. Greataxe

    Greataxe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Always good for a laugh!

    Thugs with illegal and stolen guns in Lib-Dem and Socialist paradises are what keep people unsafe.

    Clean up your own messes in Baltimore and Chicago, then you'll have something to add.
     
  19. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  20. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]


    "Several groups that monitor domestic terrorism and hate groups describe the Oath Keepers as extremist or radical. Mark Pitcavage of the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) describes the group as "heavily armed extremists with a conspiratorial and anti-government mindset looking for potential showdowns with the government."[12][13] The Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) lists the group's founder as a known extremist and describes his announced plans to create localized militia units as "frightening".[14] According to the SPLC, the group espouses a number of conspiracy and legal theories associated with the sovereign citizen movement and the white supremacist posse comitatus movement.[15][16][17]SPLC senior fellow Mark Potok describes the group as a whole as "really just an anti-government group who believe in a wild set of conspiracy theories."[14]

    Oath Keepers had a controversial presence in Ferguson, Missouri during the 2014[9] and 2015[2] unrest in the city, when members armed with semi-automatic rifles patrolled streets and rooftops."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_Keepers
     
  21. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So a bunch of liberals think people with guns are hate groups, nothing new there.

    If the Oath Keepers are a hate group, who are they hating?

    Meanwhile, they continue to work with the city of Houston, the mayor, police, and first responders to provide food and security for the people there.

    The ADL and the SPLC can go **** itself.

    I don't see their asses in Houston.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2017
  22. DoctorWho

    DoctorWho Well-Known Member

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    Look at what licensed Amateur radio operators do in times of disasters when normal communications are disrupted, these are ordinary citizens that help out in times of need.
    Volunteer firefighters / E.M.T. / Paramedics etc...
    There are many times citizens step up to the plate.
    There are others that benefit but never do anything themselves and often they speak against those that do volunteer / serve.
     
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  23. tom444

    tom444 Well-Known Member

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    Exactly.
     
  24. Xenamnes

    Xenamnes Banned

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    If there is an insistence on the part of yourself in utilizing wikipedia, then so be it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South...ersies_over_hate_group_and_extremist_listings

     
  25. papabear

    papabear Active Member

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    I agree that in times of crisis and in day to day life people should pitch in regardless of whether there is a shortage by the government or not, it is the right thing to do. If I bloke has a flat battery and you have jumpers, give him a jump start.

    I see that you are not giving undue credit to oathkeepers and in your own way (as we all see things in our own way) appreciate the balance of where to assign blame and credit.

    However, the OP clearly stated that the problems in the caribbean are a failure of gun control, which is a long bow, but then instead of leaving it to inference specifically stated that the order in America is due to gun freedoms and criminals fear of getting shot. Which again is a very long bow.

    Why not compare to:-
    - nuclear disaster in Japan - probably more organised response / less crime despite gun control and criminals having limited fear of getting shot from their citizenry.
    - or my own country we have had some big bushfires in recent years and less crime again despite criminals having limited fear of getting shot from their citizenry.

    Or even better, despite being on the same ideological divide on gun issues as the OP call him out for putting forward a crap argument that does nothing for your cause except limit its integrity. Often people for gun freedoms criticize the "lies" of the left or the left agenda, well if you are for having an honest debate and form of the debate being reasonable, then clean your house and tell the people who come up with garbage on your side of the fence they arent helping ya.

    From the outside, the reason I visit this forum for the most part is to see the logic and funny arguments people put together, the issue isnt really a thing for me. It is seeing people ability to convince or be an idiot.
     

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