Children ripped away from parents in Germany for the crime of homeschooling.

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by chris155au, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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  2. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Even religious nutcases have to adhere to the law.
     
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  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Did I say that it is a problem because they are religious people?
     
  4. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    The problem is, they are religious people and think because of it, that they can brake the law, or ignore the law.
     
  5. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, you missed the chance to start a reasonable debate on this topic, instead you’ve chosen the typical ill-informed clueless yank way of throwing crap and random insults at other nations, it’s just what ‘mericans do 24/7. The idea of informing oneself on a given topic seems unknown in the new world. Given the idiotic rude tone of your OP, you don’t really deserve an informed answer and based on my experience here, it's probably a waste of time anyway.

    The law that applies here is from 1919, you’ve just discovered this law now, I assume, well done Mr Holmes. Whether you like this law or not is of zero importance at all. I for one consider US gun laws complete insanity, but I don’t live there, so let them blow each other’s brains out, fine with me. Homeschooling laws in Germany could be discussed, unfortunately, you decided to throw crap hoping it’ll stick instead. Why not try a mature debate next time?

    There are countries where homeschooling is against the law, and others where it’s legal albeit very restrictively regulated, and those countries where it’s a normal thing. In Germany homeschooling is illegal, Austria legal under restrictive conditions, Croatia illegal, Netherlands illegal with very few exceptions, Italy legal, Norway legal under very restrictive conditions, Sweden illegal, Switzerland legal but very restrictive, etc. The simple fact that a country whose domestic policies you don’t understand, handles things differently than the US does in no way mean it’s bad. I know that most of our yank friends here don’t understand this idea, they only follow the narrative 'if it’s non-‘merican, it’s bad.'

    The children were taken away from their parents for three weeks and that was in 2013! You are six years late. Before that, the parents were urged for a long time by authorities to have their children attend a school. The parents knew that their behavior would cause problems. Throughout this time, the kids were in fact homeschooled for years by their parents, only one of their four kids did, in the end, attend a regular school for a longer period of time. There are between 500 and 1,000 kids homeschooled in Germany.

    In court, the father argued that children are the ‘property’ of their parents and only parents should have the right to make decisions. I find that utterly absurd. The parents were afraid their kids would be badly influenced at school (apparently other children are evil) and the father argued that teachers would not teach values, which is factually false and shows that his arguments are not based on facts. He also argued that today teachers don't do anything in the classroom and most of the work is to be done at home anyway, which, again, is simply not true, quite the opposite. He also argued that formal education and professional job training (Berufsausbildung) are absolutely unnecessary and a form of slavery and he doesn’t want his children to suffer. The funny thing is that he and his wife did attend normal schools and graduated with their A-levels, maybe that’s why he thinks he knows better.
    https://www.welt.de/vermischtes/gallery120256767/Der-Kampf-der-Wunderlichs-gegen-die-Schule.html
    https://www.welt.de/politik/deutsch...-Gericht-weist-Klage-von-Familie-zurueck.html
    https://www.dw.com/en/european-court-rules-against-german-homeschooling-family/a-47021333


    And if you want to read about children being ripped from their families (for more than three weeks), here:
    https://www.thecut.com/2018/12/trump-separating-families-kid-migrants-border.html
    And here:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...news-zero-tolerance-policy-immigrant-children
    And here:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...stration-family-separations-children-reunited
    And here:
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/report-almost-2000-children-ripped-from-families-at-border
    And here:
    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/im...rents-under-trump-previously-reported-n959791
    And also here.
    https://www.newyorker.com/news/disp...art-at-the-border-by-the-trump-administration
    What a pile of garbage your JOKE country is! How the hell can this happen? Have the Nazis gained power there or something? DISGRACEFULLY authoritarian!
     
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  6. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    It is argued they're a people who're unable to operate a car without a driver's license.


    Why should it come as a surprise that these backwards people snatch children for being home schooled?
    [​IMG]

    Maybe somebody should diagnose a country with autism.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  7. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    Where does you stupid anti-germanism come from? They must have been bad to you in the past.
     
  8. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Nice come back, did you know that in Germany you can't even play golf without getting a license first?

    Also, they're a weak country in my eyes because they need the Schengen much like the Nazi's needed the 3rd Reich.
     
  9. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Why Germany is weak? VW could move engine production out of Hungary and into Germany, but it doesn't, because it needs the low wages in Hungary, and it needs the Schengen to avoid tariffs.
    Germany couldn't cut it without a continent to exploit.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  10. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Also, Maybe Poland should annex Germany, ever feel like Poland's rightful place was usurped by Germany?
    I know I do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  11. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    Has nothing to do with a "comeback". You accuse others of "silly anti-Americanism", but your anti-Germanism & anti-Europeanism is apparently something completely different, I see. You cannot provide any reasonable explanation and just continue your dumb insults. That's what hypocrites do. Btw, that claim about playing golf is false, guess that makes you a liar.
     
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  12. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    He is just trolling.
     
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  13. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    How about the EU acting like a bloc of countries telling the UK it wants part of the UK and billions GBP Pounds?

    What about America being our oldest ally and Germans and EU treating Trump as hostile pushing for a European Armed Forces.

    You do not call America hostile when they liberated you and I don't care how long it's been or what Germany wants to do because whenever Germany wants to do anything, it always involves other countries in Europe falling in line.

    Remember Merkel after Brexit calling for the EU27 to act as a bloc; she didn't have to do that and Ireland and UK could have had a deal by now.
    Germany like telling the EU what to do.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  14. kazenatsu

    kazenatsu Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some of these parents who live in 80% muslim areas, you really can't blame them.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  15. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Change the laws or move.
     
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  16. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what kind of parents would put their kids at risk of being separated but on the other side I don't know if my instincts wouldn't kick in and someone get killed if the government came for my kids.
     
  17. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Such a great post full of detail, valuable context etc. I agree with 97%. But you could not resist the gusts of hyperbole any more than the post you quoted, right here, "The simple fact that a country whose domestic policies you don’t understand, handles things differently than the US does in no way mean it’s bad. I know that most of our yank friends here don’t understand this idea, they only follow the narrative 'if it’s non-‘merican, it’s bad."

    Really? why shove in that little line generalizing about us 'mericans', what we do or do not understand and what narratives we do or do not follow. ,this is a statement you cannot prove, have virtually no documented evidence for, and undermines the spirit of your own attack on the above post.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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  18. Distraff

    Distraff Well-Known Member

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    It feels like there is another side to this story. Did your source request comment from German officials or try to find their own statement on the event. News organizations often do this so that both sides can be heard. Something radical must have happened for their door to be busted down in the middle of the night. Were they consistently refusing to send their kids to public school even when they were warned about what would happen? Was there some other reason this happened that I am not being told here?
     
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  19. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Again, did I say that it is a problem because they are religious people?
     
  20. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I'm just debating the law. Obviously the parents can be blamed for not obeying authorities.
     
  21. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    This was a very long story, dragged on over many years. They were warned, had court appearance, fined the whole nine yards.
    Take the knocking down the door with a grain of salt.
     
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  22. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    In this case that is the problem, or was the problem
     
  23. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is the parents fault. This case dragged on for many years and they knew, if they continue to ignore the law, they would loose their kids.
    It is the law that all kids have to go to a certified school, public or private and be educated by certified teachers.
    The law includes, that each kid has to attend classes for a minimum of 12 years.
    Homeschooling is not permitted.

    Drivers license, in the US your parents can teach you how to drive, homeschool you, you pass the test and you are let loose.
    In Germany you have to have so and so many hours practical and theoretical training with a certified instructor, before you can take the test and you have to be 18 and not 16
     
  24. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I'm debating the law, so their religion is irrelevant.
     
  25. gnoib

    gnoib Well-Known Member

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    This law was established during the founding of the Weimar Republic, the first German Democratic State.
    It was considered correct, when the second Democratic State was founded, West Germany and it was considered correct when the third Democratic State was founded, Germany.
    It goes back to the 1800, when the German Reich was founded. Some of the small German States had established in the mid 1800 school systems, mandatory systems in some States, to have a better educated and competitive working class. Out of those systems a Reichs System was developed, after 1870 and all States had to adopt it.
    This and the social Systems developed after 1870, were the reason for the rapid industrial development of the rather rural country.
    1919 it became mandatory.
    There is a long history behind it and has nothing to do with NAZI, dictatorship or what ever.
    The whole education system, its not just schools, the blue labour education system etc. is based on mandatory certified educators and education facilities, from private to public.
     
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