Children ripped away from parents in Germany for the crime of homeschooling.

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by chris155au, Apr 6, 2019.

  1. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Well, because of it, I was able to get an education.

    Education doesn't seem to be a right, but a privilege, in my country, it's compulsory.

    I once said the word mandatory to a teacher in England and they thought I was American.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24379018
    She came to Britain, I think education is important.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  2. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    This was me in my senior year;
    [​IMG]
    (The guitarist with the big hair on the right behind the mayor).
    This was me doing my own thing outside of school and this was published in the Croydon Advertiser...
    In the Croydon Post, same week, reporters went to my school's Music department and I was in this paper and they were in that paper.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Nice. Why are you showing this?
     
  4. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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    Because I dropped out to pursue my music career.
    I was a high school drop out.
    I mean, I finished my schooling later at community college and graduated, but this was me during my senior year doing my own thing.
     
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  5. squidward

    squidward Well-Known Member

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    Let us program you to worship your banking cartel kings or you will be arrested
     
  6. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Nice!

    Sure, but if it wasn't compulsory, wouldn't you have gone to school anyway?
     
  7. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Are you saying that it doesn't allow for Homeschooling?

    How do you know what parents in Germany are familiar with?

    I don't need to live there, speak the language or be familiar with the legal system to know that it is a disgracefully authoritarian law.

    Ways such as what? Do you have the means of conducting background checks on everyone on here?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  8. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What if the parents have a very high level of education?

    In what way will they not be competitive and prepared for real life?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  9. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Every law is favouring or enforcing strict obedience to authority at the expense of personal freedom?
     
  10. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in cases of abuse.

    What about people who don't belong to any sect or religion?

    Who is "the talent?"

    How does the requirement of following the same syllabus mean that "parents can also send their child directly to school?"

    You're assuming that the parent's sole motive is to "play social rebels." You're also assuming that the future of children is negatively impacted by homeschooling.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  11. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Why did Germans believe everything he said? And is it Hitler's fault that they believed what he was saying? What ever happened to personal responsibility?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  12. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Not only ... radical religious or otherwise trolls count too!


    Who cares? Law is law and so people have to follow it - end of discussion! And if they think the law is bad, then they have the right to go to our court for it!

    But tell me ... which good reasoin should exist for such an issue? I know not a single one!



    Not who ... what! The talent of the child. There are smart kids, lesser smart kids and dumbasses ... and the talent can be checked by what again? Right!






    The existing law which has to be followed and not being broken by any moron who thinks whyever otherwise.


    Because many experts tell this ... and aside fact that it is law to send them to school and law has to be followed, there is not a single good reason not to do ... aside serious health issues of course, for example cancer or rare Diseases etc.
     
  13. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Is it peoples fault in the US that they believe Trump and his proven lies?
    Is it the peoples fault in the UK that they believe the lies of the Brexit Clowns?

    This is a social question, in which circumstances also play a role at this time.
    All that needs to be done is to have a good speaker and populist who can handle the voters psychologically and exploit the situation. In short, he / she only has to sell skillfully enough to the people as the person who shares all their worries, problems and points of view and then presents himself as the person who will solve all of this.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  14. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely! What, did you think that I was going to say that it ISN'T their fault?

    And are people not responsible for believing them?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  15. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Define your meaning of "radical religious." Then explain how it is an example "which proof the opposite." And what the hell is "trolls?"

    YOU! You're the one who keeps talking about religious people! For example, if you don't actually care whether they are religious or not, then why did you include "idiots who belong to any sect or religion" when you said, "take all the idiots who belong to any sect or religion and therefore do not want to send the children to school?"

    Yeah, I agree. I'm not sure how this helps your argument.

    I already said. Good parents know what is best for THEIR kids.

    Then why did you say "who" below?:

    Are you saying that kids who don't have the standard to go to university aren't smart kids?

    Here you say that they can theoretically reach the university standard with homeschooling. Doesn't this go against your university argument against homeschooling?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  16. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    OK ... of course people blame it without question ...

    BUT

    Why should a state allow a politician, party, or any person or institution to invoke the constitutional right of "Freedom of Speech" to misuse it for the purpose of abolishing democracy and the constitution?

    A state / country has not only external enemies and enemies, but also internal enemies and opponents. Why should a state allow these internal enemies to abuse the achievements and rights of the state to fight against the state?
    Just to leave "Freedom of Speech" untouched? Ridiculous ... we did that once, we will not make the mistake again!
     
  17. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    People blame what?

    How could speech on its own lead to "abolishing democracy and the constitution?" How could speech on its own "abuse the achievements and rights of the state to fight against the state?"
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  18. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Sorry ... why this silly game from you? You know exactly what I mean.

    Take, for example, those evangelical Christian who see the need to protect their children from the harmful, anti-religious beliefs in schools, such as this vicious "Darwin's theory of evolution."
    These are idiots and trolls and they alone are proof enough for the opposite. This rationale for homeschooling is void and parents have no right to invoke such a mental garbage as a reason for homeschooling!

    Do you understand it now?


    Why? It is a legal duty to send a child to school. Law is law and must be obeyed - Basta!
    And if the law does not suit you, then he has the democratical, constitutional possibility to sue the law!
    But just to say, I do not like the law and do not obey it that way, is punishable ... as happened here and the punishment came, which is why you get upset.

    Only I do not even begin to understand what's upset there. People are offenders by law!



    What or who rates they are good parents or bad parents again?



    Stop this nonsense please ... "children who have the talent for it" Now understood?


    Since when is smart and talent the same again?
    Fullfilling the required standard means to have the talent to fullfill the standard. If failing, the talent is not given. Simple like taht

    If you had left that statement in the whole context, it would make sense!
    Meeting the standard means learning for the standard and that means teaching the standard-compliant syllabus to the child as well.
    Just ... then tell me, what is the reason left to NOT want to send a child to school?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  19. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Stop playing the dumbass please ... I understand the game you play ...

    Who is guilty:
    The person who calls to kill another one ... or the one who take this call and kills him?

    Why shall such a scum wjho abuse the right have the right of Fredom of Speech please? Reason this ...
     
  20. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Why shall such a scum WHAT?
     
  21. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Why is this rationale for homeschooling void exactly?

    I agree, but law can be criticised. If it was the law that homosexuals are executed, would you simply just say "Law is law and must be obeyed?" Or would you criticise it?

    Well that's pretty damn subjective isn't it. I think that you and I can both agree that parents who abuse their child are BAD parents. And I'm sure that you aren't stupid enough to say that parents who want to homeschool their kids are also bad parents, putting them in the same box as abusive parents! Or are you stupid enough?

    What determines that a child is smart or a dumbass?

    And if parents teach the standard-compliant syllabus to the child, then why can't they homeschool?

    Maybe because of rubbish such as this:

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/teaching-sexual-practices-to-kids-future-of-bavarian-schools

    https://www.seeker.com/why-germany-teaches-sex-education-to-5-year-olds-1501496687.html
     
  22. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Because the content of school education is not a parent's and may never be! That is state thing!

    And before you ask "why", directly the answer: "This is so and is correct"!

    Everyone is free to criticize and in a constitutional state that is Germany, it is free to sue against any law!

    But not to follow a law out of criticism is a criminal offense ... no matter what the law is about ... Basically and always!


    No ... but are parents who want to prevent that their children will have tp learn "Darwin" in school out of rediculous Christian belief of them and let them out of this at home for homeschooling are good parents? Fro sure not!

    Again ... it is not a matter of samrt or fool ... as Iwrote too it is a matter to fullfill the standard and that means to have the talent to fullfill the rquired standard.

    Because by law they have no right to do so .... the law exists, is valid and and has to be followed as now explained several times.


    Right ... these resons named by these idiots of parents are rubbish! Understood?

    Funny is that I have 2 sons, one is 18, the other one is 14 and at both I had in parent conferece of their schoolclass to do with such dumbasses and told them clearly that they are dumbasses. They wanted to prevent that their children will learn such things in school. Only fools want to prevent and this is the reason whyhomeschooling is rubbish, because then such fools of parents could prevent, for what they have no right to prevent! Got it?
     
  23. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Why shall people have the right of Freedom of Speech to use these right to call for ending this right?

    Or in other words...
    Why shall people have the constitutional right of "Freedom of Speech" who use this right to call to fight against this constituion? Where is the sense, that these people have the right?
     
  24. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    Why don't you just carefully read what's being said and please stop putting words into my mouth. You mentioned the Decleration and said the German government signed it but doesn't really follow it. That's false, because what you claimed the document said is not what it really says. You misinterpreted it, see post 38.

    If you live in a society and deal with these things on a regular basis you are inevitabley familiar with them. It's extremely common knowledge in Germany that homeschooling is a 'no.' You can believe me or not, your call. I wonder what would happen if I acted that way regarding domestic US policies.

    No, but you made claims about these parents in question and accused me of assumptions which is rather silly when you have looked at one percent of the tip of the iceberg, yet assume someone who lives there cannot have more expertise than you. Call me old fashioned, I think living in a society means you're very familiar with many things that outsiders may never even heard of, just like you are certainly more familiar with policies in your state than I am. To you it's an authoritarian law, your opinion, fine, you mentioned it several times, inter alia in your offending OP, time to move on.

    I simply found out you're a yank by means that you're seemingly not familiar with.

    Rubbish is the correct word. Lifesitenews is a biased, conservative Catholic opinion website which has been criticized in the past for its one-sided stance. Of course you can use it to support your argument; however, you should not expect others to do the same.
    The second article you linked is a nice example of ill-informed & clueless, and sadly there is so much wrong here that it almost hurts reading it.
    Every state in Germany has its own school system, 16 states, 16 systems, there is no such thing as one unified school system. The federal government plays almost no role in education, the individual state has a lot of autonomy and things are handled differently in Lower Saxony than in Hesse or Bavaria. It’s all part of German federalism and the well-known principle here is Bildung ist Ländersache (roughly: Education is in the hands of the states, not the federal government). Meaning, what a school in Berlin does is relevant to Berlin only and has no significance for the other 15 states. Therefore, “Germany teaches sex education to five year olds” is simply false. Plus, the claim made in the headline is not further discussed in the article itself. That’s just cheap.

    One school in Berlin-Kreuzberg purchased some copies of said book, but before they started using it, parents as well as teachers criticized the plan and the whole thing was reconsidered. The curricula in Berlin were also changed because of criticism. The book itself was published by Pro Familia (a non-profit organization for family planning, sex education, etc.), it’s not an official schoolbook and was never used in schools all over the country. This is very bad and inaccurate journalism.

    The numbers they use are also not accurate. In 1968, the KMK (Kultusministerkonferenz) published recommendations for sex education in schools. In 2002, all 16 states provided a legal framework for sex education as an obligatory subject. Every state has its own laws, the laws in Berlin are different from the ones in Hamburg, and what happens in Berlin is in no way representative for the whole country.
    Baden-Württemberg
    http://www.landesrecht-bw.de/jporta...KM-20010512-SF&psml=bsbawueprod.psml&max=true (link is external)
    Bayern
    https://www.km.bayern.de/suche.html...+die+Familien-+und+Sexualerziehung&m=1&t=9999 (link is external)
    Berlin
    http://bildungsserver.berlin-brandenburg.de/themen/sexualerziehung/ (link is external)
    Brandenburg
    http://bravors.brandenburg.de/gesetze/bbgschulg_2016#12 (link is external)
    Bremen
    www.bildung.bremen.de/sixcms/media.php/13/schulgesetze.pdf (link is external)
    Hamburg
    http://www.hamburg.de/bsb/schulgesetz/ (link is external)
    Hessen
    https://kultusministerium.hessen.de...etz_mit_inhaltsverzeichnis_stand_20170116.pdf (link is external)
    Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
    http://www.landesrecht-mv.de/jporta...r-SchulGMV2010rahmen&doc.part=X&doc.origin=bs (link is external)
    Niedersachsen
    http://www.mk.niedersachsen.de/portal/live.php?navigation_id=24742&article_id=6520&_psmand=8 (link is external)
    Nordrhein-Westfalen
    https://www.schulministerium.nrw.de...chtlinien-fuer-die-Sexualerziehung-in-NRW.pdf (link is external)
    Rheinland-Pfalz
    https://bm.rlp.de/fileadmin/mbwwk/Publikationen/Bildung/Schulgesetz_2016.pdf (link is external)
    Saarland
    http://www.saarland.de/dokumente/thema_bildung/Broschuere_sexualerziehung_25062013_web.pdf (link is external)
    Sachsen
    https://www.revosax.sachsen.de/vorschrift/4192-SchulG (link is external)
    Sachsen-Anhalt
    https://www.bildung-lsa.de/schule/s...sse/sicherheit_gesundheitsschutz.html#gesivz1 (link is external)
    Schleswig-Holstein
    http://www.gesetze-rechtsprechung.sh.juris.de/jportal/portal/t/oyv/page/... (link is external)
    Thüringen
    http://landesrecht.thueringen.de/jp...ulG+TH&psml=bsthueprod.psml&max=true&aiz=true (link is external)


    And you seriously think you read one or two highly inaccurate opinion articles and you're informed on these things? You really shouldn't do that. Rubbish is indeed the right word.
    Most schools deal with the basics of sex-education in the 4th grade in primary school when kids are between ten and eleven.
     
  25. The Rhetoric of Life

    The Rhetoric of Life Well-Known Member

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