China’s playing the long game, and is making key moves to hedge against Trump’s tariffs

Discussion in 'Asia' started by s002wjh, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Gosh gallop is designed to be impossible to respond to. If you actually want to engage in debate pick a point or two and make your case. Your Gish gallop post was a litanie of accusations and opinions all of which you failed to make any effort to substantiate. Care to try again?
     
  2. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Better to let Iran obtain nukes and foment violence and turmoil in the Mideast? Of course China will side with them. Birds of a feather flock together
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  3. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Pick one that failed - so far all you have done is twirled around making unsubstantiated allegation and fallacious Ad Hom and other nonsensical fallacious gibberish = "unsubstantiated allegations".

    That have no valid arguments to refute even one of my claims -I supposed makes it impossible for you to refute these claims. Don't blame me for this. It is not my fault that you can't back up your accusations or your claims.
     
  4. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Without Trump Iran would still not be playing with Nukes.
    Violence in the Mid-East?
    Iraq
    Libya
    Syria
    and now Iran.
    Yep, you got it all figured out all right.
     
    Margot2 likes this.
  5. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    The Chinese have not been secretive about their goals. You should really do some research before embarassing yourself with uneducated opinions.
     
  6. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    dude I study china for many years, have you even been to china or talk to Chinese descendant before lol
     
  7. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Very good example of a Gish gallop post being used in follow up to attempt to discredit your opponent. You make a very long list of unsubstantiated claims then say prove I'm wrong. Sorry that's not the way debate works. Pick any one of the long list of claims you made and then argue as to what facts lead you to your conclusion. Make your case. At that point I would be more than happy to engage you in honest debate.
     
  8. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    Did that make any sense to anybody in here? Seemed like incoherent rambling to me.
     
  9. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Traveling to China, or talking to descendants in no way educates you on what the stated goals of the Communist Party of China are. That takes reading the statements they have made. They have been very public about the fact they intend to be the preeminent power and to replace the United States as the worlds superpower. They have also had a consistent policy of aggression against their neighbors in the region.
     
  10. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    and did you read statement from their news or from fox news ;)? their statement is mainly on economy and with some regional interest. their main goal is getting their citizen gdp as close to other developed nation such as japan. The result of that is they will have biggest economy, but it doesn't mean they want conquer the world or care about replace US as #1 economy. if you really read their statement etc, then you know they are more worry about domestic discontent, economy. they also want start innovation so they can gain more profits compare to profits from manufacture goods. India is following many of same policies as china. ever heard of make in india.
    now maybe in 20-30yr their policy will change but right now their concentration is making $$
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  11. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Quit projecting your issues on to me.. you were the one that started with this "Gish Gallop" nonsense and have been doing nothing but yammering on about it ever since.

    In my previous post I talked about total military spending - roughly 300 Billion in 2000 - increasing to over 900 Billion under Bush and over a Trillion over Obama. Had we maintained 2000 spending levels (increasing with inflation) we could have diverted 500 Billion/year x 16 years = 8 Trillion dollars to infrastructure, technology, ramping up our economy to compete in the 3rd millennium.

    There are the facts - and there is the conclusion. Nothing unsubstantiated about it. What is unsubstantiated is your mindless claim that the facts presented are "misrepresentations, half truths and a bunch of other name calling BS"
     
  12. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    Post 218 includes links to many major media articles which cover this subject. Go read them and come back and refute them. Your personal opinions have no credibility. Neither does State run TV propaganda.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  13. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Got a like so some smart person understood it.
     
  14. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    How is it stealing? Did they force US companies to use their labor to produce their products?
    Or have those companies freely located there. Knowing before hand their IP was likely to be taken.

    Manipulating currency? We do the same thing. The fed controls the currency by interest rates. No other country should be allowed to do the same?

    Our country's companies freely went there to get cheap labor to put our workers out of business. Most of it happened after Reagan trade baby NAFTA was passed.

    Our economy is robust as it's ever been. Doesn't seem like China ran over us.
     
  15. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    DECOUPLING: "Long Game" China economic slowdown sparks debate over what caused the slump, and how Beijing should intervene.

    Industrial production growth – an important gauge of manufacturing output – slowed to 4.4 per cent in August, a new 17-year low, while retail sales growth slowed to 7.5 per cent. Fixed asset investment slowed to 5.5 per cent in the first eight months of year, down from 5.7 per cent in the first seven months, despite government efforts to boost local government infrastructure investment.

    While the trade war has been commonly blamed for a slowdown which also saw China’s economy grow at its lowest rate on record in the second quarter of this year, others have pointed to challenges to growth that predate last July, when the first tariffs were enacted, such as the deleveraging campaign that started two years ago to reduce debt and risky lending.

    “The economic figures would not be that good even without the trade war. The slowdown was already projected,” Hao said. “Instead, policymakers are using the occasion to accelerate long-awaited but delayed reforms, such as interest rate liberalisation.”

    China has structural defects. Trump is pushing on them.
     
  16. Josephwalker

    Josephwalker Well-Known Member

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    None of which have anything to do with the subject of this thread. Part of the reason for a Gish gallop post is to throw in a bunch of extraneous claims in order to distract from the subject matter at hand and make it seem as if you are extremely knowledgeable and put your opponent in the untenable position of having to refute every point you make.
    Generally I pick the low hanging fruit in gish gallop post but then the formula is to respond with " I noticed you ignored points c d e f and g as you basically have already done in this post.
    Now once again if you would like to pick something from your gish gallop post relevant to the OP subject matter and discuss it honesty I'm here. You choose. Honest debate of more silly games, your call.
     
  17. ronv

    ronv Well-Known Member

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    Well, lets see Industrial production ~ 10X ours.
    Retail sales, not quite double.

    Fixed asset investment - double ours

    The only upside-retail sales of CCS.


    upload_2019-9-17_7-20-23.png

    upload_2019-9-17_7-24-34.png
    upload_2019-9-17_7-34-12.png
    Did someone say recession?
     
  18. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    didnt i already reply on the subject? there are plenty news thats exaggerated tried to get viewer click bait. do you have source from china says they want conquer the world or just your own belief.
     
  19. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    They are included in those links, read them and get back to me...
     
  20. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    how is that relate to post 215? we all know there will be effect due to trade war from both side, its a given.
     
  21. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    it just route to another similar link. somehow you think those link know more about internal high lvl CCP policies than chinese state media? so again do you have a solid link from that indicate Xi said something about conquer world or chinese state media say something similar? cause if they didn't even say that, so where does the link you provide find that info, and how the heck they were able to infiltrated CCP to get that kind info?
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  22. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Post 215 is my post. They relate in that they both involve China's foolish decision to resist simply dealing fairly with us once Trump made it clear that it was necessary for them to do so.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  23. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    FBI Arrests Chinese Official for Visa Fraud.

    “Arrest marks first legal counterattack on Beijing’s ‘Thousand Talents’ technology theft plan.”​

    Not impressed with China's "long game" so far.
     
  24. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    China's long game is very impressive so far ... and some silly anecdote about some Chinese official being arrested for fraud does not change anything.
     
  25. Zorro

    Zorro Well-Known Member

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    Indeed there are "effects".

    DECOUPLING: "Long Game" China’s industrial profits fall 5.3% in Sept as trade war toll mounts.

    China’s vast industrial sector has come under pressure amid trade tensions and tit-for-tat tariffs with the United States. Profits have slowed visibly since the second half of last year, though the sector has seen some transitory rebounds as Beijing steps up support measures.​

    The decline in profits contrasted with the slight improvement in the manufacturing sector in September, with factory surveys and better-than-expected industrial production growth pointing to a pick-up in domestic demand.​

    But factory gate prices, considered a key barometer of corporate profitability, fell at the steepest clip in more than three years as economic growth ground to a fresh near 30-year low in the third quarter.​

    Xi seems to think he holds the upper hand, since he has no voters to face. But people who can’t vote eventually express their frustrations in less peaceful ways.
     

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